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The NO on Prop 8 thread.... (pg. 26)
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| SFtrance |
I'll put myself out on a limb here and live with the repercussions.
My lawyer speak: (prior to voting)
As much as I am extremely against Proposition 8, I believe supporting it essentially sets the precedent for the courts to overturn already existing California law even on completely legal legislation. The Supreme Court has opened Pandora's box and possibly headed into ridiculous open-ended litigation. If something isn't the way one particular group likes, take it to the courts. The people spoke, the law was passed, that's unfortunately that.
In this case I decided to abstain. I hoped it would pass, but I decided to stick with my guns. |
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| DaveT |
| quote: | Originally posted by selfEvolution
They couldn’t win with the truth so they resorted to something far more sinister. They even stooped so low as to distribute a campaign mailer fraudulently suggesting that President-elect Obama supported their efforts, when they knew for a fact that he had come out in opposition to Proposition 8.
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I didn't see this flyer, but during the Vice President Debate, they were asked if they supporte gay marraige.
Biden tried to get around it by saying he though everyone should have equal rights no matter their partner's gender...
But when pushed to answer the question (after Palin said she was against gay marriage), Biden said that both he and Obama were against gay marraige. Not for it, but against it.
SNL actually did a skit of this part of the debate on Monday night, hehe. (I saw Biden actually say it during the VP debate....I didn't get the details from SNL, lol)
Dave |
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| R!CH |
| quote: | Originally posted by SFtrance
I'll put myself out on a limb here and live with the repercussions.
My lawyer speak: (prior to voting)
As much as I am extremely against Proposition 8, I believe supporting it essentially sets the precedent for the courts to overturn already existing California law even on completely legal legislation. The Supreme Court has opened Pandora's box and possibly headed into ridiculous open-ended litigation. If something isn't the way one particular group likes, take it to the courts. The people spoke, the law was passed, that's unfortunately that.
In this case I decided to abstain. I hoped it would pass, but I decided to stick with my guns. |
i invite the supreme court to overturn democracy in any instance where voters choose to take away rights from a group of people. rights that have no demonstrably negative affect on people or society as a whole. equality is a fundamental american ideal. if 50% of california decides tomorrow that slavery should be legal, that is not something the courts should uphold either. |
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| mobius9 |
Something for you SFTrance -
Article 1 Section 7:
(b) A citizen or class of citizens may not be granted privileges
or immunities not granted on the same terms to all citizens.
Privileges or immunities granted by the Legislature may be altered or
revoked.
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"Ruling against same sex marraige is not against the constitution of California, as it places the equal requirement upon all citizens to marry someone of the opposite gender." (not an exact quote, taken out of memory)
- Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonin_Scalia
An interesting way to put it, but I guess it works like that legally. Who knows. |
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| SFtrance |
Off the top of my head, just thinking, it isn't looking like I can form a rational rebuttal for Article 1. Though most benefits/privileges are on the federal level which wouldn't apply either way due to Federal Defense of Marriage Act. I need to look more into the Domestic Partnership Rights and Responsibilities Act to do a comparison.
Promise I'll write something back more in depth. Busy as hell writing on a liability case study and on the other side of the bloody country.
Oh not a lawyer by any means. yet. (I'm sticking with Patents, screw liability and civil rights) |
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| djjoshuaallen |
| quote: | Originally posted by pnutttty
oh wow. you have it all wrong. you must be listening to your church because this has nothing to do with churchs/schools/etc...this has everything to do a minority group wanting equality.
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1. I dont go to church
2. Where do you think gay couples will take their marriages to? Churches.
3. Do you think that the history books would leave out such a monumental proposition? Im willing to bet prop 8 will still make it into the grade school history books.
4. What rights would you have recieved by the failure of prop 8 other then the right to a "marriage"
5. Whatever rights you isolate from #4, add those to a civil union and the jesus lovers are happy, as are the gay couples. |
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| mobius9 |
| quote: | Originally posted by SFtrance
Off the top of my head, just thinking, it isn't looking like I can form a rational rebuttal for Article 1. Though most benefits/privileges are on the federal level which wouldn't apply either way due to Federal Defense of Marriage Act. I need to look more into the Domestic Partnership Rights and Responsibilities Act to do a comparison.
Promise I'll write something back more in depth. Busy as hell writing on a liability case study and on the other side of the bloody country.
Oh not a lawyer by any means. yet. (I'm sticking with Patents, screw liability and civil rights) |
Thanks buddy, I can already tell its going to be a good response.
Me neither, I just do trial media and document handling for the family firm. AKA BITCH WORK!!! :whip: |
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| naeblis |
| quote: | Originally posted by R!CH
i invite the supreme court to overturn democracy in any instance where voters choose to take away rights from a group of people. rights that have no demonstrably negative affect on people or society as a whole. equality is a fundamental american ideal. if 50% of california decides tomorrow that slavery should be legal, that is not something the courts should uphold either. |
classic. that is hilarious, if you think about it. inviting the supreme court to overturn democracy. OMG LOL4LIFE!
Also @ SFtrance, looking forward to seeing that, sounds super interesting, thanks for taking time to put that together! :)
On another note, there really is a lot of us vs. them in this thread that is starting to make me sick. Just because this all boiled down to a yes vs. no, doesn't mean there are a million beautiful shades of gray. It is amazing how tolerance has been a completely one way street here... |
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| Jake Benson |
There were mass Anti Prop 8 protests tonight in West Hollywood / Hollywood. It was amazing. A total uncoordinated march up San Vicente, down Sunset, then spurred off into four smaller protests where people just marched in the middle of the streets stalling traffic, sometimes getting beat by the LAPD (because they're pigs). I also witnessed some gays stalled a bus and beating on it's windows until they shattered. :( It was pretty cool to see on TV (and march in, I got lots of vids including one of this crazy lady).
There will be another protest outside of that huge mormon churc (just West of Beverly Hills) on Santa Monica BLVD tomorrow at 2PM. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by naeblis
classic. that is hilarious, if you think about it. inviting the supreme court to overturn democracy. OMG LOL4LIFE!
Also @ SFtrance, looking forward to seeing that, sounds super interesting, thanks for taking time to put that together! :)
On another note, there really is a lot of us vs. them in this thread that is starting to make me sick. Just because this all boiled down to a yes vs. no, doesn't mean there are a million beautiful shades of gray. It is amazing how tolerance has been a completely one way street here... |
The tolerance hasn't been one way. The religious (and to be fair even some non-religious) people are forcing the others to participate in their view of what marriage should be. That is discriminatory. |
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| pnutttty |
| quote: | Originally posted by djjoshuaallen
1. I dont go to church
2. Where do you think gay couples will take their marriages to? Churches.
3. Do you think that the history books would leave out such a monumental proposition? Im willing to bet prop 8 will still make it into the grade school history books.
4. What rights would you have recieved by the failure of prop 8 other then the right to a "marriage"
5. Whatever rights you isolate from #4, add those to a civil union and the jesus lovers are happy, as are the gay couples. |
like i said, this is about loving committed couples wanting the same rights and responsibilities afforded to any other married couple (ie full equality).
Again, this has nothing to do with the children in schools, church or even straight couples…or any other lame attempt to divert/twist/make other arguments…but in the end, this is about equality. |
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| djjoshuaallen |
| quote: | Originally posted by pnutttty
like i said, this is about loving committed couples wanting the same rights and responsibilities afforded to any other married couple (ie full equality).
Again, this has nothing to do with the children in schools, church or even straight couples…or any other lame attempt to divert/twist/make other arguments…but in the end, this is about equality. |
this is a never ending circle, once again, what rights are gay couples missing with a civil union that they would be afforded with a "marriage?" nobody seems to be able to answer this question. If this directly effects you, and you are so passionate about it, shouldnt you know what right you are not granted? |
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