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The NO on Prop 8 thread.... (pg. 31)
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| bas |
| quote: | Originally posted by gerard6975
i love my wife and we're married for 7 years and have been together for 12 years. though i don't see what's so special about this f'n contract which really doesn't mean anything except forbidding me to bang another woman. |
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| skizzell |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Reese
My girlfriend and I don't believe in god. We will not be married in a church or by a religious figure. We have not decided if we want to have children for sure. So, is that marriage? It certainly isn't "traditional marriage." |
That is an excellent point. The overwhelming majority of Yes on 8 people want to keep marriage 'traditional'. The problem is we no longer live in traditional times. We live in modern times. We are a global society. We are free thinkers and innovators. Most importantly, we have basic freedoms.
If marriage is so sacred and traditional, why are we allowed to divorce, and why is our divorce rate so high? What kind of impact does divorce have for children? Sounds like we should ban divorce next. It's not sacred and religiously traditional!
We might as well bring back slavery too...you know, to keep our country in a 'traditional' state.
Welcome to 200 years ago. |
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| DJ Reese |
| quote: | Originally posted by skizzell
That is an excellent point. The overwhelming majority of Yes on 8 people want to keep marriage 'traditional'. The problem is we no longer live in traditional times. We live in modern times. We are a global society. We are free thinkers and innovators. Most importantly, we have basic freedoms.
If marriage is so sacred and traditional, why are we allowed to divorce, and why is our divorce rate so high? What kind of impact does divorce have for children? Sounds like we should ban divorce next. It's not sacred and religiously traditional!
We might as well bring back slavery too...you know, to keep our country in a 'traditional' state.
Welcome to 200 years ago. |
What would be interesting to me would be to look at the the divorce rate of people whom got married in the last 4 months (since gay couples have been able to get married), gay and straight over the next 5 to 10 years. I'm willing to bet the pecentage would significantly lower for gay couples. Now who's kids do you think will be more screwed up? The ones with gay parents or divoced parents?
I could go on and on with these kind of questions and points. |
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| gehzumteufel |
Let's wait to see system's response to the discussion we had over in the c0r about this that I posted here. He has yet to respond directly to it and I am awaiting his response.
System, also:
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Mark 12: 28-34
28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"
29"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e]
30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'[f]
31The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[g]There is no commandment greater than these."
32"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him.
33To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."
34When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions. |
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| system-7 |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
Let's wait to see system's response to the discussion we had over in the c0r about this that I posted here. He has yet to respond directly to it and I am awaiting his response.
System, also: |
What's your ? on this passage? |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by system-7
What's your ? on this passage? |
What is your response about to it? Do you get what he is saying, that how it was not really what everyone makes it out to be in the Christian faith? Or do you just brush it off as useless rhetoric? He proved my earlier claim that you are sinning by doing as you do to gays.
Mind you, this guy is a devout Christian. |
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| system-7 |
This passage is a recap of the old testament law, aka 10 commandments.
you might ask, how is that? the 10 commandments covers two types sins that are:
1. Toward God, in which we should:
"30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and wth all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."
2. Toward your neighbor
"31 The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself."
The reason that loving the Lord 1st is the greatest commandment is because in accomplishing this, we can go onto fullfilling the second: loving your neighbor as yourself
(sometimes I wanna kill my neighbor, especially when they like to party til 5am while my daughter tries to sleep)
but now lets go into detail about the 10 commandments and how they relate to loving God and loving thy neighbor. continued... |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by system-7
So your saying to you want the state to intervene into my beliefs by redefining marriage? |
No the state shouldn't intervene to redfine marriage between man and women, because if you allowed gay marriage, you wouldn't not be changing anything to do with marriage, just allowing other another group to do it. It does not affect heterosexual marriage in any shape or form.
The constitution was also founded mainly on common sense (in both meanings ;) ) and the need to separate religion from law, church from state. Marriage is for many people a non-religious act and more of a legal matter, therefore gay marriage should be a matter of law and has nothing to do with religion.
There is a severe double standard going here - If you are so moralistic or even religious about marriage, then why do you not have the exact same feelings (i.e. it's plain wrong and won't accept it in this day and age etc.) about divorce?
The only reason YOU can divorce today is that 400 years ago a certain king wanted more than one wife in his lifetime. No other reason. There was uproar and even a war over it. but over time people accepted and all the other religions and countries allowed it too.
So there might be a bit of resistance about gay marriage as the older more religious generations try to protect their crumbling way of life and tradition, but it's happening and it's only right.
If you're allowed to divorce, then gays should marry, because religion is the only thing stopping you from accepting it, once you realize that it does not affect you own marriage.
P.S. you clearly not at ease (from the way write) and show a measure of disrespect towards gay people - you refer to them as "your types".
Try referring to another group of people as "your types"....say a group of black people for instance.....you'll get knocked the out pretty darn quick. |
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| system-7 |
I don't seem to get all butthurt when people say "f your church".
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
No the state shouldn't intervene to redfine marriage between man and women, because if you allowed gay marriage, you wouldn't not be changing anything to do with marriage, just allowing other another group to do it. It does not affect heterosexual marriage in any shape or form.
The constitution was also founded mainly on common sense (in both meanings ;) ) and the need to separate religion from law, church from state. Marriage is for many people a non-religious act and more of a legal matter, therefore gay marriage should be a matter of law and has nothing to do with religion.
There is a severe double standard going here - If you are so moralistic or even religious about marriage, then why do you not have the exact same feelings (i.e. it's plain wrong and won't accept it in this day and age etc.) about divorce?
The only reason YOU can divorce today is that 400 years ago a certain king wanted more than one wife in his lifetime. No other reason. There was uproar and even a war over it. but over time people accepted and all the other religions and countries allowed it too.
So there might be a bit of resistance about gay marriage as the older more religious generations try to protect their crumbling way of life and tradition, but it's happening and it's only right.
If you're allowed to divorce, then gays should marry, because religion is the only thing stopping you from accepting it, once you realize that it does not affect you own marriage.
P.S. you clearly not at ease (from the way write) and show a measure of disrespect towards gay people - you refer to them as "your types".
Try referring to another group of people as "your types"....say a group of black people for instance.....you'll get knocked the out pretty darn quick. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by system-7
This passage is a recap of the old testament law, aka 10 commandments.
you might ask, how is that? the 10 commandments covers two types sins that are:
1. Toward God, in which we should:
"30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and wth all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength."
2. Toward your neighbor
"31 The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself."
The reason that loving the Lord 1st is the greatest commandment is because in accomplishing this, we can go onto fullfilling the second: loving your neighbor as yourself
(sometimes I wanna kill my neighbor, especially when they like to party til 5am while my daughter tries to sleep)
but now lets go into detail about the 10 commandments and how they relate to loving God and loving thy neighbor. continued... |
Dude, you keep quoting scripture about this, but why are you quoting a book that was written from multi-generational whispers 300 years after the fact?
This bit is important - I don't have to respect your religion - at all - I just accept that it's there and don't disrespect it.
You need to do the same. The 10 commandments have nothing to do with US law, so there's no need to have this argument. It's a matter of society law, not religious scripture. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by system-7
I don't seem to get all butthurt when people say "f your church". |
What is this statement referring to?
Also, which book was written in 800bc? |
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| system-7 |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DJ RANN
Dude, you keep quoting scripture about this, but why are you quoting a book that was written from multi-generational whispers 300 years after the fact?
This bit is important - I don't have to respect your religion - at all - I just accept that it's there and don't disrespect it.
You need to do the same. The 10 commandments have nothing to do with US law, so there's no need to have this argument. It's a matter of society law, not religious scripture. [/QUO
I dare you to read Levitcus and go through law school, and deny that our US law don't mirrors that book. |
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