Originally posted by DJ Damerchi
But unfortunately they are above UN law, especially with their Veto buddy having permanent presence in the security council
Israel will never get a sanction in todays world.
every country other than the US could just as easily impose sanctions on israel. admittedly, without US sanctions that power is significantly diminished, however, nothing prevents these countries from unilaterally imposing sanctions on israel.
Flotser
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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
the war in lebanon was the turning point for me. oh, and that ing wall.
the fact is, that this "ing" wall stopped the suicide bombings from the west bank and thus saves a lot of lifes on both sides.
A Russian telling Israeli military to behave! Phhhh :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
What's next?
Britney Spears conducting seminars for mothers on how to treat their children?
Krypton
*sigh*
America surrenders it's national interest yet again.
DJ Damerchi
"Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel and it must remain undivided"
he lost me there. I doubt all countries would move their embassies from Tel Aviv.
I think the plight of East Jerusalem is one of the most controversial issues.
.
Arbiter
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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
i dont understand how you can be so vehemently against hamas when they have been spectacularly ineffective at killing israeli civilians. you didn't see england bombing the out of northern island just to kill a few terrorists.
That they aren't very good at what they do does not make their orientation any less contemptible. Moreover, it is impossible to know how much more successful they might be at killing Israelis but for complained-of actions of Israel to protect itself in the past, and it is also impossible to know how much more successful they might become in the future if allowed to fester.
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how can you give tacit approval for the destruction of civilian infrastructure in a third-world region by a first-world nation?
Well, that's an inevitable result of armed conflict with an enemy located in dense civilian areas. If we hesitate to use necessary force to eliminate them because of the unfortunate side-effect of destroying civilian infrastructure, we only provide every other such group the world-over with an incentive to similarly structure their organizations so that they cannot be attacked without destroying civilian infrastructure.
In the long run, this state of affairs (which is already occurring) will serve to cause even more suffering. This misguided pseudo-humanitarianism is a particularly insidious ideology, spawned by a toxic mixture of myopia and false hope; save a life today, lose five later. I think it's a lousy bargain, but that is precisely the bargain that is achieved time and time again by "international pressure" on Israel.
I do not blame anyone for being dismayed when they see the carnage of war, but it is a mistake to infer from the fact that it is horrible that the alternative is preferable. Cancer treatments have the unfortunate effect of harming healthy human cells, but they are still cost-justified. Well, Hamas is a cancer, and delaying treatment is ill-advised.
Magnetonium
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Originally posted by TranceGiant
A Russian telling Israeli military to behave! Phhhh :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
What's next?
Britney Spears conducting seminars for mothers on how to treat their children?
What's this has anything to do with the thread? I dont have Russian citizenship BTW. I am Canadian. And besides, the record of Russian military is well documented. I am talking about Israeli military here and how its not a single bit better than possible actions of the Russian army. Israel has shown itself to be a very agressive force in this conflict, with little regard to civilians, UN workers, schools and other objects.
And I didnt praise Hamas either. So whats your problem?
Topic-wise: to the people who are backing Israeli actions - do you really think Israel once and for all will win this and put an end to the conflict? They can pummel Gaza all they want, but they are not gaining much with the offensive. Hamas has little to lose here. Average Palestinians arent gonna praise and salute Israel for saving them from "evil" and reducing their tiny overpopulated enclave of Gaza into smithereens.
Flotser
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Originally posted by Magnetonium
Topic-wise: to the people who are backing Israeli actions - do you really think Israel once and for all will win this and put an end to the conflict? They can pummel Gaza all they want, but they are not gaining much with the offensive. Hamas has little to lose here. Average Palestinians arent gonna praise and salute Israel for saving them from "evil" and reducing their tiny overpopulated enclave of Gaza into smithereens.
They won't praise and salute Israel, but they might understand that investing all their money on long range rockets and firing them on Israel is stupid. In fact, in around year 2000, Palestinians form the west bank shot many mortars on the Gilo neighborhood in Jerusalem, but stopped for good after a serious operation by the IDF.
Why do the Palestinians in Gaza need rockets? Israel removed by force all Israeli settlements form Gaza and took away all of its soldiers. If the Palestinians won't shoot rockets from Gaza, won't try to attack and kidnapp soldiers near the border - so Israel would have no interest whatsoever to attack in Gaza.
Although its other neighbor Egypt has no interest in attacking Gaza.
So why do they need rockets?
Why not simply invest all the international aid money in education, health, industry etc.?
(well.. maybe because Hamas doesn't help the Palestinans achieve their plight for independant state, but simply serves the Iranian interests in the region)
I hope that this operation in Gaza will help them understand that. and that the cease-fire agreement will make it much more difficult for them to smuggle in new rockets.
Krypton
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Originally posted by Flotser
They won't praise and salute Israel, but they might understand that investing all their money on long range rockets and firing them on Israel is stupid.
Why do the Palestinians in Gaza need rockets?
So why do they need rockets?
How else would they resist a blockade?
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Why not simply invest all the international aid money in education, health, industry etc.?
(well.. maybe because Hamas doesn't help the Palestinans achieve their plight for independant state, but simply serves the Iranian interests in the region)
They do invest in education, health, etc. Where have you been?
Hamas is particularly popular among Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, though it also has a following in the West Bank, and to a lesser extent in other Middle Eastern countries. Since its formation in 1987, Hamas has conducted numerous social, political, and military actions. Its popularity stems in part from its welfare and social services to Palestinians in the occupied territories, including school and hospital construction. The group devotes much of its estimated $70 million annual budget to an extensive social services network, running many relief and education programs, and funds schools, orphanages, mosques, healthcare clinics, soup kitchens, and sports leagues. According to the Israeli scholar Reuven Paz "approximately 90 percent of the organization's work is in social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities". CLICK
The work of Hamas in these fields supplements that provided by the United Nations Relief Works Agency (UNRWA). Hamas is also well regarded by Palestinians for its efficiency and perceived lack of corruption compared to Fatah. CLICK
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I hope that this operation in Gaza will help them understand that. and that the cease-fire agreement will make it much more difficult for them to smuggle in new rockets.
Obviously you, or your leadership do not know you enemy, or why they fight. The operation will help them understand what? That Israel is a brutal occupier? Because that's the message that's being sent.
TranceGiant
Krypton, are you closing your eyes and ears on purpose, or are you really that naive? Don't you realize the "bloackde" has got absolutely nothing to do with Hamas rocket launches? If THEY themselves are proclaiming that they'll fight the Zionist entitity until its very last day, then who are YOU, Krypton, to convince us it's all about "resistance" against inhumane conditions? If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...then it's probably a fasicst terrorist organization that cannot be appeased or confronted rationally.
Arbiter is shockingly clear about the problem. It may hurt our "humanist" eyes to read arguments of such brutal consequence, but at the end, you know he's right. History has only proven him right. Hamas is not a political reistance movement, it's a totalitarian, and as simple as it sounds, criminal gang with a sick ideology.
When was the last times we tried to have a cup of coffee and understand the rationale of a serial rapist?
TranceGiant
Highly recommended
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FIRST GAZA, THEN THE WORLD
The confrontation in the Gaza Strip is not between Hamas and Israel, but rather between Al Qaeda, Iran and radical Islam, and the free world
Ben Dror Yemini (originally was published in Hebrew Maariv)
Some of Israel’s most blatant critics have written that for every Israeli killed, about a hundred Palestinians were killed. A half-truth is worse than a lie, but this is not even a half truth. This is deception. Because months and years of rockets fired at a civilian population are not a matter for bloody accounts. It is a nuisance that no country, neither Syria nor Sweden, would tolerate. It is a provocation that requires a tough response. And if we are already going for bloody accounts, we should do the overall math. We can suffice with just the accounting in the Arab-Muslim world.
So, since the establishment of the State of Israel, close to 12 million Arabs and Muslims have been butchered, most of them by Arabs and Muslims. Israel’s “contribution,” since its establishment, is 60,000, and that includes all the wars and the two Intifadas. In other words, half a percent.
And more importantly, the confrontation is not between Hamas with its rockets and Israel. The confrontation is between Hamas, as one of the entities that compose radical Islam, and the free world. Its declared goal is to establish a world Islamic caliphate as part of an anti Semitic ideology that also calls for the annihilation of the Jews. Explanations will follow. And since political Islam has already annihilated millions without any announcement, we should take it seriously when there is an announcement about annihilation.
Is Hamas part of the global Jihad? Section 7 of the Hamas Covenant explains that it is not a local movement, nor even a national movement. The heading is “The global nature of the Islamic resistance movement.” And later, “Because the Muslims are spread throughout the entire world, the movement is global.” To remove any doubt, Dr. Yunis Al Astal, a member of the Palestinian parliament, one of the senior Hamas officials, who served as dean of the faculty are of Shariyah and chairman of the Islamic Law Department at Islamic University, stated that "We Will Conquer Rome, and from There Continue to Conquer the Two Americas and Eastern Europe."
Is this a movement that calls for the annihilation of the Jews? That is what is written in a continuation of the same section. “The messenger (Mohammed) said, “The Muslims will fight the Jews and the Muslims will kill them, until the Jew hides behind the stones and the trees, and then the stones and the trees will say, ‘Oh, Muslim, Abd Allah, there is a Jew who is hiding, come and kill him.” And this is in addition to blaming the Jews for all the wars in the world, for world domination, etc.
The problem is not with quotes from the sources. After all, even Judaism has Rabbi Shimon, who said, “The best gentile is a dead one.” But that did not become the foundation for any movements. Certainly not for a government party. To the contrary. There are innumerable interpretations explaining the circumstances of that statement and its lack of relevance. Not so with Hamas. The old imperative has become a practical instruction. And the Hamas leaders leave no room for doubt.
Sheikh Muhsin Abu Ita stated on the Al Aqsa channel that “The annihilation of the Jews is a wonderful blessing.” Dr. Ahmed Bahar, acting speaker of the Palestinian parliament stated that “the Jews are cancer, and they and the Americans should be destroyed to the last person.” According to the Palestinian constitution, this man, Bahar, will become the head of the Palestinian Authority if Abu Mazen ceases to function. Dr. Al Astal made clear that the annihilation order is a matter for our time and not for the future, and that "we are sure that the Holocaust is still to come upon the Jews".
The book by Dr. Matthias Kuntzel, “Jihad and Jew-Hatred,” elaborates on the annihilation ideology of radical Islam, including among Hamas. We have not yet succeeded in imparting this awareness to the world. It is still not too late.
There is no logic in madness
The most symbolic event occurred in Iraq. A Shi’ite suicide bomber carried out his attack during a Sunni demonstration of identification with Hamas. A bit confusing, no? After all, this Shi’ite terrorist was supposed to be serving Iranian interests. Iran, as we know, is the country that aids Hamas. And even the battle cries of the demonstrators contained the common denominator of the Shi’ites and the Sunnis: burning Israeli flags and calling for its extermination. So why commit suicide there, of all places? Who was he working for? What exactly was he trying to achieve? Against whom was he protesting? Don’t look for answers, because we are dealing with madness. And any attempt to find some logic is doomed to failure.
Slaughter for the sake of slaughter
Samuel Huntington - the prophet of the Clash of Civilizations - died. He was wrong. There is primarily another war, of political Islam against Muslims. And, in effect, it is not a war. It is one-sided slaughter in which the radicals slaughter others, and the others have no idea of how they might have sinned. Women and children who were butchered in villages in Afghanistan and Algeria by the Taliban or the Islamic Front were not collaborating with the West.
It was slaughter for the sake of slaughter. Just like the hundreds of Indians in Mumbai, among whom were 44 Muslims (far more than the Westerners or Jews) who were massacred by other Muslims. Exactly like hundreds of Muslims who are slaughtered by other Muslims in innumerable suicide attacks in Pakistan,.
But there is a small addition. In the case of Muslims, 95% of the protest from Pakistan through Um el Fahem to Londonistan, is in favor of the radical Muslims. Muslims in favor of those who are massacring them. Like the demonstrators in Iraq. The fact that they came to demonstrate for Hamas and against Israel did not help them. They, too, were worthy of slaughter. We have already said that there is no logic. We reiterate it.
Israel is defeating itself
Lately, when the prevarication mills (the “industry of lies”) began working at full steam on the bitter fate of the refugees in the Gaza Strip, who once again were forced to experience violence, the Cinematheque in Tel Aviv screened the film, The Forgotten Refugees, by director Michael Grynszpan. The film has already been shown in many places around the world, including in the U.S. Congress, but not on any channel in Israel.
The film deals with the Jewish communities in Muslim countries - a million people at the end of the second world war - who were forced to leave or expelled with an enormous amount of property expropriated. They became refugees, primarily in Israel.
The Nakba occurred because the Arabs rejected the UN proposal, and because they declared a war of annihilation on Israel. The Nakba of the Jews in Islamic countries, in contrast, occurred without a reason. The Jews of Morocco or Yemen or Iraq or Egypt did not declare any war. But despite that, in some cases, in Iraq and in Libya, dozens of Jews were slaughtered.
There is no "progressive" academic who does not inflate the Dir Yassin episode. But the slaughter of Jews by Arabs is never mentioned. Most of them arrived with absolutely nothing. They lived in immigrant camps. But they were not perpetuated as an open wound, as refugees, like the Palestinians.
Israel, for reasons that are hard to understand, has never played the card of the Jewish refugees. The story of the forgotten refugees could have been the unequivocal Israeli response to the issue of the Palestinian refugees. After all, the right of the Jewish refugees to reparations is far greater than the right of the Palestinians.
The former suffered and were forced out, despite the fact that they started no war and declared no annihilation. The latter did. So the Jews, and only the Jews, have the right to reparations. Those who do not succeeded in executing their plots of annihilation have no right to reparations. There is no historical precedence for an aggressor who turns himself into a victim. Such an absurdity has never existed, nor will it. Even in this matter, Israel has defeated itself in the propaganda battle. And here, too, it is not too late to rectify the error.
Krypton
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Originally posted by TranceGiant
Krypton, are you closing your eyes and ears on purpose, or are you really that naive?
Please refrain from addressing me personally, thank you...:rolleyes:
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Don't you realize the "bloackde" has got absolutely nothing to do with Hamas rocket launches? If THEY themselves are proclaiming that they'll fight the Zionist entitity until its very last day, then who are YOU, Krypton, to convince us it's all about "resistance" against inhumane conditions? If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...then it's probably a fasicst terrorist organization that cannot be appeased or confronted rationally.
And the USSR was sworn to the destruction of America. But the two still dealt with each other didn't they? And yes, the blockade has a lot to do with the current campaign of rocket strikes because more rockets are being launched now than ever before the blockade. It's easy to call Hamas a fascist terrorist organization, then again, it's easy to call Israel a Zionist terrorist aparteid state. Where are we? Absolutely nowhere.
