Otec, your knowledge of the military is limited at best.
BTW, what city in Russia do you live in?
I may not be the most educated person in the world. After all, I only have a Masters degree in my hand. What about you? Do you have a doctorate in anything other then retardation? I've been all over Europe and the US. Where is it again that you've traveled to?
DJ Damerchi
I loved how superior russian technology was in the arab israeli wars in the past :stongue:
Elior
quote:
Originally posted by otec
what Israel has? a bunch of female soldiers? That's just a joke.
They make the best coffee ever, I tell you it's no joke...
:rolleyes:
The17sss
Back on topic... hoping to pursuade the bleeding hearts of Hamas, this is the video clip of the day IMO: Hamas cheering its "industry of death." This comes from February 2008, as a Hamas politician explains why his group loves to hide behind women, children, and the elderly. Apparently, Hamas considers death a growth industry, a term used by Fathi Hammad in this speech:
And this is why it makes no sense at all to reward Hamas with statehood in Gaza. It's a terrorist enclave as it is. What happens when they have statehood and the legitimacy to raise an army and purchase massive amounts of weapons? They will have a million Gazans to use as human shields for all sorts of attacks against the Israelis, much as they already do for their own "bombing machine". Israel has the right idea in rooting out these dispicable animals.
hardcore trancer
Speaking of Irans military,here is something to look at just for fun.:)
otec
quote:
Originally posted by CHRles
Otec, your knowledge of the military is limited at best.
BTW, what city in Russia do you live in?
I may not be the most educated person in the world. After all, I only have a Masters degree in my hand. What about you? Do you have a doctorate in anything other then retardation? I've been all over Europe and the US. Where is it again that you've traveled to?
look what we've got here. a MBA traveler, no .
every morning I see a bunch of such guys queuing to a local coffee shop for a morning dose of dope. Guess where they came from? Right, traveler.
Fir3start3r
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
proportion is how mature states conduct international relations. it has nothing to do with 'tit for tat', its more like "if hamas fire rockets into israel that don't hit anything, you don't invade and slaughter hundreds of civilians".
You're missing the point totally.
It doesn't matter whether or not the rockets 'hit anything' (a ludicrious agrument), the very fact that it's being done AT ALL is.
Egypt mediators wiegh in...
quote:
Egypt pushes Hamas to accept truce
By SALAH NASRAWI – 1 hour ago
CAIRO, Egypt (AP) — Egyptian mediators pushed the militant Palestinian Hamas group to accept a truce proposal for the embattled Gaza Strip in talks Tuesday, while the U.N. secretary-general headed to the region to join the multitrack diplomatic efforts for a cease-fire.
U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon has backed the Egyptian truce proposal to halt the fighting, now in its third week. Before leaving New York for the Egyptian capital on Tuesday, he urged Israel and Hamas to accept a U.N. cease-fire resolution and allow humanitarian aid into Gaza.
"To both sides, I say: Just stop, now," Ban told a news conference Monday. "Too many people have died." He said Hamas militants who have been firing rockets into southern Israel "must stop, they must look to the future of the Palestinian people."
Israel's point man to the cease-fire talks, Defense Ministry official Amos Gilad, is also slated to come to Cairo Thursday, Israeli Defense Ministry officials said Tuesday. Officials had initially said Gilad would travel Wednesday, then changed the day to Thursday. Gilad had put off the trip for days, saying the time was not yet ripe.
Defense officials say that depending on what happens in Cairo, Israel will decide to move closer to a cease-fire or whether to launch a new, even tougher stage of its offensive. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were discussing sensitive policy matters.
Ban won't be meeting Hamas officials and has no plans to go to Gaza during his trip, which will also include Jordan, Israel, the Palestinian-controlled West Bank, Turkey, Lebanon, Syria and Kuwait.
Tuesday's talks between Hamas and Egyptian officials in Cairo were the latest in intensive diplomatic efforts. In Damascus, the Turkish prime minister's top foreign policy adviser, Ahmet Davutoglu, met for the third time in two days with Hamas' exiled political leader, Khaled Mashaal, about truce proposals.
But so far, the push has yielded little public progress. A Palestinian official close to Hamas said the previous round of Egypt-Hamas talks on Sunday were "stormy."
During that session, Egypt's top mediator, intelligence chief Omar Suleiman, told Hamas to accept Egypt's truce proposal without amendments or else Hamas will be considered responsible for Israel's continuing offensive in Gaza, the Palestinian official said, speaking on condition of anonymity for discussing the closed-door talks.
On Tuesday morning, the Hamas delegation held a new round of talks with Suleiman and Egyptian officials. Later in the day, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak left on a previously unannounced trip to Riyadh to meet with his ally, Saudi King Abdullah to brief him on the efforts to persuade Hamas to accept an immediate cease-fire, Egyptian officials said.
Suleiman accompanied Mubarak on the trip, leaving his aides to hold further talks with Hamas on Tuesday evening, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the talks.
The talks come as Israeli ground troops pushed deeper into Gaza City in their 18-day offensive, in which more than 900 Palestinians have been killed, half of them civilians. Israel says its assault aims to stop Hamas rocket attacks against Israeli towns, saying it will stop only when there are guarantees the rocket fire and smuggling of weapons into Gaza will stop.
Hamas demands an immediate withdrawal of Israeli forces from Gaza, a halt to the offensive and the opening of border crossings into the tiny Mediterranean coastal territory, which Israel and Egypt have mostly kept sealed since Hamas took power in Gaza in 2007.
How those crossings are to be opened, however, is a major sticking point. Egypt has called for international monitors at the borders to prevent smuggling, although not on the Egyptian side of the border, and there is also talk of such monitors being tasked with ensuring the cease-fire. Hamas has so far rejected any international monitors and demands a role in controlling the border crossings, which Egypt and Israel reject.
One Egyptian official on Tuesday accused Hamas of procrastinating and making preconditions. "They want to score a political victory, regardless of how long this bloodshed will continue," the official told The Associated Press, speaking on condition of anonymity because the talks are closed.
Hamas' deputy leader Moussa Abu Marzouk told Al-Jazeera TV that the Egyptian proposal is not acceptable as it stands. Hamas has "amendments" for it and if "taken into consideration, it will be a framework for moving toward a solution," he said.
Qatar has called for an emergency summit of Arab League heads of state on Friday in Doha to discuss the Gaza crisis.
Arab League head Amr Moussa said 12 members have agreed to a Doha summit. However, in order to call an emergency summit, at least 14 members must agree.
But Egypt and Saudi Arabia have rejected the idea, suggesting instead that Arab leaders hold talks in Kuwait on Sunday ahead of a previously planned economic summit. That proposal appeared to be aimed at preventing Qatar from taking a greater role in mediation.
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
You're missing the point totally.
It doesn't matter whether or not the rockets 'hit anything' (a ludicrious agrument), the very fact that it's being done AT ALL is.
you're missing the point totally. what do you expect hamas to do when israel breaks a truce? or are israel allowed to do anything in your eyes?
Flotser
quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
proportion is how mature states conduct international relations. it has nothing to do with 'tit for tat', its more like "if hamas fire rockets into israel that don't hit anything, you don't invade and slaughter hundreds of civilians".
The fact that "only" 16 people were killed (and hundreds wounded) by the rockets shot from Gaza before the current military action doesn't mean Israel shouldnt retaliate.
All the people in the rockets radius live in fear for 8 years. They got used to constant alarms and having about 15 second to run for a shelter while rockets fall around them. Those people live in undisputed Israeli territory and its crazy they are under rocket fire. The fact that "only" 16 were killed is due to the alarm system and the big amount of shelters built due to the constant attacks.
and isn't the case of Osher, an 8 years old boy who lost his leg, is alone enough to show the crazy situation those people were in?: http://www.ynet.co.il/english/artic...3504771,00.html
(and it happened in october 2008 - during the so called truce with Hamas. I guess you didn't hear about it, cause in Google i couldn't find an international news site that reported this... which just shows how hypocrite most of the world is.)
pkcRAISTLIN
quote:
Originally posted by Flotser
The fact that "only" 16 people were killed (and hundreds wounded) by the rockets shot from Gaza before the current military action doesn't mean Israel shouldnt retaliate.
All the people in the rockets radius live in fear for 8 years. They got used to constant alarms and having about 15 second to run for a shelter while rockets fall around them. Those people live in undisputed Israeli territory and its crazy they are under rocket fire. The fact that "only" 16 were killed is due to the alarm system and the big amount of shelters built due to the constant attacks.
and isn't the case of Osher, an 8 years old boy who lost his leg, is alone enough to show the crazy situation those people were in?: http://www.ynet.co.il/english/artic...3504771,00.html
(and it happened in october 2008 - during the so called truce with Hamas. I guess you didn't hear about it, cause in Google i couldn't find an international news site that reported this... which just shows how hypocrite most of the world is.)
whatever you reckon mate
quote:
The Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center, whose December 31 report titled "Six Months of the Lull Arrangement Intelligence Report," confirmed that the June 19 truce was only "sporadically violated, and then not by Hamas but instead by ... "rogue terrorist organisations".
Instead, "the escalation and erosion of the lull arrangement" occurred after Israel killed six Hamas members on November 4 without provocation and then placed the entire Strip under an even more intensive siege the next day.
never let the facts get in the way of your bias!
tathi
"Akram Abu Roka was treated for burns at Nasser Hospital in Khan Younis. The hospital’s chief doctor said the injuries may have been caused by munitions containing white phosphorus. Human Rights Watch claimed that Israel’s military has fired the illegal substance into populated areas of Gaza, putting civilians at risk."
tathi
quote:
Theonion.com
JERUSALEM—After decades of bitter conflict and the loss of thousands of innocent lives, Israeli and Palestinian forces clashed once again this week, with each side laying claim to a five-mile stretch of desperately needed cemetery space.
Fighting over the disputed territory, which is located on the easternmost border of the Gaza Strip, has thus far resulted in more than four dozen casualties. According to sources, the swath of cemetery space is being called the rightful burial home of both the Israeli and Palestinian people.
"Israel has always been the deathplace of the Jews," said Moshe Abrahim, a religion professor at Bar-Ilan University. "My father was killed here, and his father and mother, and both of his uncles before him were killed here. To have this area occupied by Palestinian bodies is an insult to our great history."
Enlarge Image
An Israeli soldier looks out over a field of disputed holes.
Added Abrahim, "I'd sooner die than give up my God-given grave."
The first episodes of violence over the narrow strip of cemetery began early Monday morning when a Palestinian suicide bomber detonated himself outside of a Jewish mausoleum, leaving one dead and outraging hundreds. In response, Israel launched a series of swift air strikes, destroying six Palestinian funeral homes and killing an estimated 15 pallbearers.
Unfazed by the counterattack, Islamic extremists vowed never to surrender, and said they would continue to perish "for as long as it takes."
"So many martyrs for almighty Allah and His blessed prophet Mohammed have sacrificed their lives so that we might someday lose ours," said Ali Akhtar, leader of the terrorist organization known as Islam's Undertakers. "Palestine will not rest until each and every one of its sons has a place beneath this glorious land. Our day of victory is at hand!"
Since Monday's attack, violence has erupted across the disputed region, with Islamic radicals throwing rocks and launching mortar fire at approaching Jewish hearses. Fearing that the prized graveyard would be lost to a surge of Palestinian bodies, Israel reportedly took action, sealing 500 soldiers inside military coffins and placing them in strategic tombs.
Israeli troops have been ordered to stand their ground and remain interred indefinitely.
In a press conference Wednesday, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said that the state of Israel was doing everything in its power to prevent Palestinians from being buried inside the cemetery, including setting up security checkpoints to inspect suspicious vehicles for shovels, tombstones, and embalming fluid.
Olmert, however, would not respond to questions about whether Israel had overstepped its boundaries during an incident earlier this week that saw four Palestinian octogenarians detained on suspicion of being "on the brink of death."
As is often the case in the region, innocent civilians from both sides have borne the brunt of the fighting. Asalaa Bahiya—a recently dead Palestinian woman—was repeatedly fired upon by Israeli soldiers after her body was spotted entering the disputed cemetery. In addition, a young Israeli cadaver was captured by Islamic militants, blindfolded, and dragged from a nearby Jerusalem morgue.
"How could God have allowed this to happen?" said Yitzchak Meltzer, a grieving Tel Aviv resident who watched helplessly as his firstborn son was driven from his grave by extremists. "To have to rebury your own child—it's a parent's worst nightmare come true."
Though some hold out hope for the day when Israeli and Palestinian citizens are buried side by side in peace and harmony, all attempts to bring the conflict to a close have so far failed. A United States–sponsored peace plan that proposed dividing the cemetery space directly in half was dismissed as unjust by both sides, with each claiming it was entitled to the entire graveyard. Likewise, a compromise solution to cremate all deceased citizens was rejected by Israel as "barbaric."
With bodies mounting on both sides, members of the ruling Hamas Party released a statement Monday suggesting that the violence could continue for years to come.
"As long as Israelis continue to age, decline in vigor and strength, and ultimately pass away, never will their nation know the meaning of peace," the statement read in part. "Either they stop dying at once, or prepare to suffer the consequences."
