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How do you like your pen0r? (pg. 19)
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
You do know that penile cancer is incredibly rare in sanitary parts of the world and accounts for about 0.1% of male cancer deaths, right? Are you planning on your kid living in poverty in South America or something?
:wtf: |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Are you planning on your kid living in poverty in South America or something? |
Oi, that's not penile cancer, we're just well-endowed :mad: |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
LOL.
Really, though. A person living in the U.S. choosing circumcision to prevent penile cancer makes about as much sense as them forbidding their kid to use a cell phone on the off chance that they'll have an increased risk of developing a brain tumor.
:wtf: |
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| NeoPhono |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
You do know that penile cancer is incredibly rare in sanitary parts of the world and accounts for about 0.1% of male cancer deaths, right? Are you planning on your kid living in poverty in South America or something?
:wtf: |
You're right, it is rare, there are only 300 deaths a year from it in the United States, although it could be argued that those numbers are skewed by the high percentage of circumcised males in the US. Only 90 or so people are killed each year by lightning strikes, but I'm not going to let my kid play outside in a thunderstorm. My goal is risk reduction, whether that be absolute or relative, in the face of (in my opinion) negligible loss. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by NeoPhono
You're right, it is rare, there are only 300 deaths a year from it in the United States, although it could be argued that those numbers are skewed by the high percentage of circumcised males in the US. Only 90 or so people are killed each year by lightning strikes, but I'm not going to let my kid play outside in a thunderstorm. My goal is risk reduction, whether that be absolute or relative, in the face of (in my opinion) negligible loss. |
Okay, so you are trying "reduce" a risk that is already about 1 in 1,000,000. Can you cite *any* stats saying that complications from circumcision occur in less than 1 in 1,000,000 cases? Good luck with that.
;) |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| Doesn't circumcision lower the risk of contracting HIV and STIs? I'm sure I read that they conducted trials in Africa which were so successful they stopped them because it was becoming unethical not to circumcise people at risk of HIV. |
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| NeoPhono |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Okay, so you are trying "reduce" a risk that is already about 1 in 100 million. Can you cite *any* stats saying that complications from circumcision occur in less than 1 in 100 million cases? Good luck with that.
;) |
There are only case reports of anything more significant than prolonged bleeding occurring with modern circumcision which occurs in about 1% of cases. |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by NeoPhono
Risk versus benefit. I see the fear of complication along with what I consider to be emotionally-based arguments of "mutilation" on one side of the ledger |
I agree that "mutilation" is an emotionally loaded term. That's why I would refer to all traditional genital surgery as "non-consensual genital modification" which I think is accurate and neutral.
OK but what about the other benefits? http://www.noharmm.org/advantage.htm (a couple of these are tenuous at best but still..)
| quote: | | and the potential reduction of life-altering and even life-ending pathologies on the other. |
The methodologies of the studies that proved these reductions have been shown to be questionable. The medical benefits are fairly shaky from what I understand. TO the point where the American Acadamy of Paediatrics no longer recommends routine circumcisions.
| quote: | | With modern technique, the risk of serious complication via circumcision is basically non-existent. However, no modern medicine can restore kidney damage secondary to severe UTI or bring someone back to life after dying of penile cancer. |
The link between smegma and penile cancer was originally suggested in the 30s by a guy who thought it also caused epilepsy and has since been thoroughly shown to be untrue: http://www.cirp.org/library/disease...ircumcised men.
The American Academy of Paediatrics in its 1999 Task Force on Circumcision abandoned the stance that circumcision is a valid prophylactic for UTIs, finding that previous studies were so methodologically flawed that no meaningful conclusion could be drawn from them.
A causal link between UTIs and end stage renal disease in the absence of concomitant underlying abnormalities has also been shown to be unlikely (Sreenarasimhaiah S, Hellerstein S. Urinary tract infections per se do not cause end-stage kidney disease. Pediatr Nephrol 1998;12(3):210-3)
I would recommend you thoroughly peruse this site:http://www.cirp.org/ the reference library in particular. |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Doesn't circumcision lower the risk of contracting HIV and STIs? I'm sure I read that they conducted trials in Africa which were so successful they stopped them because it was becoming unethical not to circumcise people at risk of HIV. |
It was a dodgy study. The males that were circumcised were told to abstain from sex for 6 weeks after the circumcision (as if you wouldn't anyway) and also told to use condoms, educated on their benefits and taught how to use them.. while the uncircumcised participants were not.
The study that was stopped was a different one, where the results confirmed that circumcision did not lower the risk of infection. It was stopped because the organisers were "disappointed" with the results (ie.. they were hoping to prove that circumcision was an effective way to reduce the risks..)
Furthermore there is no correlation between geographical locations where circumcision is prevalent and a lower rate of HIV infection. If anything the opposite applies. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | | Originally posted by astroboy |
So, just how much time do you spend thinking about this issue?
:p |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by astroboy
It was a dodgy study. The males that were circumcised were told to abstain from sex for 6 weeks after the circumcision (as if you wouldn't anyway) and also told to use condoms.. while the uncircumcised participants were not.
The study that was stopped was a different one, where the results confirmed that circumcision did not lower the risk of infection. It was stopped because the organisers were "disappointed" with the results (ie.. they were hoping to prove that circumcision was an effective way to reduce the risks..) |
Can you please give the names of the studies in question, or rather the people who conducted them? |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
So, just how much time do you spend thinking about this issue?
:p |
lol Well I tried in vain to convince my cousin not to have her kid circumcised a couple of years ago.. that's when I did the research. In terms of ethics I think this issue is as serious as female genital modification - which receives heaps of publicity. |
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