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Meat eaters! Why do you eat other animals? (pg. 18)
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
You're complete ignoring grains and nuts here ;)
Vegans and vegetarians don't only eat fruits and vegetables for Christ's sake. |
yeah, you also eat plastic sausage. yum! |
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| Lews |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
so are you saying we should kill all the animals so they don't contribute to global warming? |
:rolleyes: |
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| Krypton |
| Evolutionarily speaking, carnivores are more intelligent. I have heard some theories that the very reason why humans are what they today is because of our adaption to becoming carnivorous. Meat is more easily digested and packs far more nutrition than a plant would, especially for hunter-gathering ice age humans, with little to eat. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
Meat is horrible for you ;) |
it has already been demonstrated to you on multiple occasions from multiple posters that this isn't true. you never actually respond to those arguments, you just chant the mantra some more.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
Eating meat is pure selfishness |
so? nom nom nom.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
and laziness, |
yeah, coz whipping up a lentil burger is a huge physical effort. |
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| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
You are looking at this from a 21st century perspective and some of the 20th century. It's easy these days in a Western country to get enough supplements and the right fruits/vegetables to replace the required nutrients in meat. In poorer countries and also the entire world just a couple of hundred years ago, vegetarians would be died a whole lot more than now.
Simple fact is meat was an absolute requirement and cooked meat is one of the most crucial parts of why we are where we are today as humans.
One can argue that we have moved on now and don't require meat, but can anyone actually provide a convincing argument as to why we should stop eating meat? FYI - Animal cruelty is not a valid argument.
No other animal in the entire world shows compassion towards other animals. |
Dude, do you even know what you are arguing against me? Read my posts... you are having an argument with someone else or something.
Let's get this straight. Originally I was trying to get/encourage people to elaborate on their points of view. I used cars as a subject to give an example. It was not a comparison to the topic on hand, it was simply an example of the type of reasoning I was trying to get at.
But, I took the bait later and argued that meat is a want, not a need. I am referring to current times and it again, has nothing much to do with the general topic. I was simply arguing that as of this moment, *most* people can choose not to eat meat.
As for the rest of it... you are arguing something entirely unrelated to what I have been talking about.
Also, lol @ "vegetarians would be died a whole lot more than now." |
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| Lews |
Protein is an important nutrient required for the building, maintenance, and repair of tissues in the body. Amino acids, the building blocks of protein, can be synthesized by the body or ingested from food. There are 20 different amino acids in the food we eat, but our body can only make 11 of them. The 9 essential amino acids which cannot be produced by the body must be obtained from the diet. A variety of grains, legumes, and vegetables can also provide all of the essential amino acids our bodies require. It was once thought that various plant foods had to be eaten together to get their full protein value, otherwise known as protein combining or protein complementing. Intentional combining is not necessary to obtain all of the essential amino acids.1 As long as the diet contains a variety of grains, legumes, and vegetables, protein needs are easily met.
Protein Requirements
With the traditional Western diet, the average American consumes about double the protein her or his body needs. Additionally, the main sources of protein consumed tend to be animal products which are also high in fat and saturated fat. Most individuals are surprised to learn that protein needs are actually much less than what they have been consuming. The Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for protein for the average, sedentary adult is only 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight.2 To find out your average individual need, simply perform the following calculation:
* Body weight (in pounds) X 0.36 = recommended protein intake
However, even this value has a large margin of safety, and the body’s true need is even lower. Protein needs are increased for women who are pregnant or breastfeeding. In addition, needs are also higher for active persons. As these groups require additional calories, increased protein needs can easily be met through larger intake of food consumed daily. Extra serving of legumes, tofu, meat substitutes, or other high protein sources can help meet needs that go beyond the current RDA.
The Problems with High-Protein Diets
High protein diets for weight loss, disease prevention, and enhanced athletic performance have been greatly publicized over recent years. However, these diets are supported by little scientific research. Studies show that the healthiest diet is one that is high-carbohydrate, low-fat, and moderate in protein. Increased intake of whole grains, fruits, and vegetables are recommended for weight control3 and preventing diseases such as cancer4 and heart disease.5 High-carbohydrate, low-fat, moderate-protein diets are also recommended for optimal athletic performance.6 Contrary to the fad diets currently promoted by some popular books, a diet that is high in protein can actually contribute to disease and other health problems.
Osteoporosis. Diets that are rich in protein, especially animal protein,7 are known to cause people to excrete more calcium than normal through their urine and increase the risk of osteoporosis. Plant-based diets, which provide adequate protein in addition to calcium through the consumption of leafy green vegetables, beans, and fortified fruit juices, can help protect against osteoporosis.
Cancer. Although fat is the dietary substance most often singled out for increasing one’s risk for cancer, animal protein also plays a role. Specifically, certain proteins present in meat, fish, and poultry, cooked at high temperatures, especially grilling and frying, have been found to produce compounds called heterocyclic amines. These substances have been linked to various cancers including those of the colon and breast.8-10 A diet rich in whole grains, fruits, and vegetables is important in decreasing cancer risk,4 not to mention adding more healthful sources of protein in the diet.
Kidney Disease. When people eat too much protein, it releases nitrogen into the blood or is digested and metabolized. This places a strain on the kidneys which must expel the waste through the urine. Kidney problems may result in individuals who are susceptible to disease.
Cardiovascular Disease. Diets high in fat and saturated fat can increase one’s risk of heart disease. High-protein diets often encourage consumption of meat, eggs, and dairy products, which are all high in cholesterol, fat, and saturated fat. The most popular of the high-protein diets have been described as containing excessive amounts of these artery-clogging products.11 Adequate protein can be consumed through a variety of plant products which are cholesterol-free and contain only small amounts of fat.
Weight Loss Sabotage. Many individuals see almost immediate weight loss as a result of following a high-protein diet. In fact, the weight loss is not a result of consuming more protein, but by simply consuming less calories. Over the long run, consumption of this type of diet is not practical as it can result in the aforementioned health problems. As with any temporary diet, weight gain is often seen when previous eating habits are resumed. To achieve permanent weight loss while promoting optimal health, the best strategy involves lifestyle changes including a low-fat diet of grains, legumes, fruits, and vegetables combined with regular physical activity.
Protein Checklist
High protein animal flesh diets are unhealthy. Adequate amounts of protein to maintain body tissues, including muscle, are important and can be easily achieved on a vegetarian diet. If you are uncertain about the adequacy of protein in your diet, take inventory. Although all protein needs are individual, the following guidelines can help you to meet, but not exceed, your needs.
* Aim for 5 or more servings of grains each day. This may include 1/2 cup of hot cereal, 1 oz. of dry cereal, or 1 slice of bread. Each serving contains roughly 3 grams of protein.
* Aim for 3 or more servings of vegetables each day. This may include 1 cup of raw vegetables, 1/2 cup of cooked vegetables, or 1/2 cup of vegetable juice. Each serving contains about 2 grams of protein.
* Aim for 2 to 3 servings of legumes each day. This may include 1/2 cup of cooked beans, 4 oz. of tofu or tempeh, 8 oz. of soymilk, and 1 oz. of nuts. Protein content can vary significantly, particularly with soy and rice milks, so be sure to check labels. Each serving may contain about 4 grams to 10 grams of protein. Meat analogues and substitutes are also great sources of protein that can be added to your daily diet.
References
1. Position of the American Dietetic Association: vegetarian diets. J Amer Diet Assoc 1997;97(11):1317-21.
2. Munoz de Chavez M, Chavez A. Diet that prevents cancer: recommendations from the American Institute for Cancer Research. Int J Cancer Suppl 1998;11:85-9.
3. Position of the American Dietetic Association: weight management. J Amer Diet Assoc 1995;95:809.
4. World Cancer Research Fund. Food, Nutrition and the Prevention of Cancer: A Global Perspective. American Institute for Cancer Research. Washington, D.C.: 1997.
5. Ornish D, Brown SE, Scherwitz LW. Can lifestyle changes reverse coronary heart disease? Lancet 1990;336:129-33.
6. Position of the American Dietetic Association: nutrition for physical fitness and athletic performance for adults. J Amer Diet Assoc 1993;93:691.
7. Zemel MB. Calcium utilization: effect of varying level and source of dietary protein. Am J Clin Nutr 1988;48:880-3.
8. Potter JD. Nutrition and colorectal cancer. Cancer Causes Control 1996;7(1):127-46.
9. Giovannucci E, Goldin B. The role of fat, fatty acids, and total energy intake in the etiology of human colon cancer. Am J Clin Nutr 1997;66(6suppl):1564S-71S.
10. De Stefami E, Ronco A, Mendilaharsu M, et al. Meat intake, heterocyclic amines, and risk of breast cancer: a case-control study in Uruguay. Cancer Epidem Biomark Prev 1997;6:573-81.
11. Titchenal CA, Dobbs JC, Hetzler RK. Macronutrient composition of The Zone diet based on computer analysis. Med Sci Sport Exer 1997;29(5):S126. |
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| bas |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
It takes 10 calories of vegetables/grains/etc to get 1 calorie back from animals ;)
And you really don't need to eat that much. It's quite easy to get energy and not eat meat.
I stand by my point that the two reasons people eat meat is selfishness and laziness. |
Don't forget deliciousness...Why do you think it's selfish and/or lazy? I think having to farm and care for animals is one of the least lazy things ever :wtf: |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
who's got a fork? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
Protein is an important nutrient required for the building, maintenance, and repair of tissues in the body. Amino acids, the building blocks of protein, can be synthesized by the body or ingested from food. There are 20 different amino acids in the food we eat, but our body can only make 11 of them. The 9 essential amino acids which cannot be produced by the body must be obtained from the diet. A variety of grains, legumes, and vegetables can also provide all of the essential amino acids our bodies require. It was once thought that various plant foods had to be eaten together to get their full protein value, otherwise known as protein combining or protein complementing. Intentional combining is not necessary to obtain all of the essential amino acids.1 As long as the diet contains a variety of grains, legumes, and vegetables, protein needs are easily met.
Protein Requirements
With the traditional Western diet, the average American consumes about double the protein her or his body needs. Additionally, the main sources of protein consumed tend to be animal products which are also high in fat and saturated fat. Most individuals are surprised to learn that protein needs are actually much less than what they have been consuming. The Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for protein for the average, sedentary adult is only 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight.2 To find out your average individual need, simply perform the following calculation:
* Body weight (in pounds) X 0.36 = recommended protein intake
However, even this value has a large margin of safety, and the body’s true need is even lower. Protein needs are increased for women who are pregnant or breastfeeding. In addition, needs are also higher for active persons. As these groups require additional calories, increased protein needs can easily be met through larger intake of food consumed daily. Extra serving of legumes, tofu, meat substitutes, or other high protein sources can help meet needs that go beyond the current RDA.
The Problems with High-Protein Diets
High protein diets for weight loss, disease prevention, and enhanced athletic performance have been greatly publicized over recent years. However, these diets are supported by little scientific research. Studies show that the healthiest diet is one that is high-carbohydrate, low-fat, and moderate in protein. Increased intake of whole grains, fruits, and vegetables are recommended for weight control3 and preventing diseases such as cancer4 and heart disease.5 High-carbohydrate, low-fat, moderate-protein diets are also recommended for optimal athletic performance.6 Contrary to the fad diets currently promoted by some popular books, a diet that is high in protein can actually contribute to disease and other health problems.
Osteoporosis. Diets that are rich in protein, especially animal protein,7 are known to cause people to excrete more calcium than normal through their urine and increase the risk of osteoporosis. Plant-based diets, which provide adequate protein in addition to calcium through the consumption of leafy green vegetables, beans, and fortified fruit juices, can help protect against osteoporosis.
Cancer. Although fat is the dietary substance most often singled out for increasing one’s risk for cancer, animal protein also plays a role. Specifically, certain proteins present in meat, fish, and poultry, cooked at high temperatures, especially grilling and frying, have been found to produce compounds called heterocyclic amines. These substances have been linked to various cancers including those of the colon and breast.8-10 A diet rich in whole grains, fruits, and vegetables is important in decreasing cancer risk,4 not to mention adding more healthful sources of protein in the diet.
Kidney Disease. When people eat too much protein, it releases nitrogen into the blood or is digested and metabolized. This places a strain on the kidneys which must expel the waste through the urine. Kidney problems may result in individuals who are susceptible to disease.
Cardiovascular Disease. Diets high in fat and saturated fat can increase one’s risk of heart disease. High-protein diets often encourage consumption of meat, eggs, and dairy products, which are all high in cholesterol, fat, and saturated fat. The most popular of the high-protein diets have been described as containing excessive amounts of these artery-clogging products.11 Adequate protein can be consumed through a variety of plant products which are cholesterol-free and contain only small amounts of fat.
Weight Loss Sabotage. Many individuals see almost immediate weight loss as a result of following a high-protein diet. In fact, the weight loss is not a result of consuming more protein, but by simply consuming less calories. Over the long run, consumption of this type of diet is not practical as it can result in the aforementioned health problems. As with any temporary diet, weight gain is often seen when previous eating habits are resumed. To achieve permanent weight loss while promoting optimal health, the best strategy involves lifestyle changes including a low-fat diet of grains, legumes, fruits, and vegetables combined with regular physical activity.
Protein Checklist
High protein animal flesh diets are unhealthy. Adequate amounts of protein to maintain body tissues, including muscle, are important and can be easily achieved on a vegetarian diet. If you are uncertain about the adequacy of protein in your diet, take inventory. Although all protein needs are individual, the following guidelines can help you to meet, but not exceed, your needs.
* Aim for 5 or more servings of grains each day. This may include 1/2 cup of hot cereal, 1 oz. of dry cereal, or 1 slice of bread. Each serving contains roughly 3 grams of protein.
* Aim for 3 or more servings of vegetables each day. This may include 1 cup of raw vegetables, 1/2 cup of cooked vegetables, or 1/2 cup of vegetable juice. Each serving contains about 2 grams of protein.
* Aim for 2 to 3 servings of legumes each day. This may include 1/2 cup of cooked beans, 4 oz. of tofu or tempeh, 8 oz. of soymilk, and 1 oz. of nuts. Protein content can vary significantly, particularly with soy and rice milks, so be sure to check labels. Each serving may contain about 4 grams to 10 grams of protein. Meat analogues and substitutes are also great sources of protein that can be added to your daily diet.
References
1. Position of the American Dietetic Association: vegetarian diets. J Amer Diet Assoc 1997;97(11):1317-21.
2. Munoz de Chavez M, Chavez A. Diet that prevents cancer: recommendations from the American Institute for Cancer Research. Int J Cancer Suppl 1998;11:85-9.
3. Position of the American Dietetic Association: weight management. J Amer Diet Assoc 1995;95:809.
4. World Cancer Research Fund. Food, Nutrition and the Prevention of Cancer: A Global Perspective. American Institute for Cancer Research. Washington, D.C.: 1997.
5. Ornish D, Brown SE, Scherwitz LW. Can lifestyle changes reverse coronary heart disease? Lancet 1990;336:129-33.
6. Position of the American Dietetic Association: nutrition for physical fitness and athletic performance for adults. J Amer Diet Assoc 1993;93:691.
7. Zemel MB. Calcium utilization: effect of varying level and source of dietary protein. Am J Clin Nutr 1988;48:880-3.
8. Potter JD. Nutrition and colorectal cancer. Cancer Causes Control 1996;7(1):127-46.
9. Giovannucci E, Goldin B. The role of fat, fatty acids, and total energy intake in the etiology of human colon cancer. Am J Clin Nutr 1997;66(6suppl):1564S-71S.
10. De Stefami E, Ronco A, Mendilaharsu M, et al. Meat intake, heterocyclic amines, and risk of breast cancer: a case-control study in Uruguay. Cancer Epidem Biomark Prev 1997;6:573-81.
11. Titchenal CA, Dobbs JC, Hetzler RK. Macronutrient composition of The Zone diet based on computer analysis. Med Sci Sport Exer 1997;29(5):S126. |
wow, not having a balanced diet can be bad for you. amazing. |
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| Theresa |
That's taking it a little far there pkc... but I suppose that's par for the course in the c0r.
But seriously though...:wtf: |
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| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
You're complete ignoring grains and nuts here ;) |
Fair enough.
The reality is, the 'energy' argument isn't very strong either seeing as nuts and seeds are high in calories. Not that we are really lacking in calories or anything, but if we were eating 'healthy' it would matter.
But what about protein and other essential nutrients:
Getting the Right Kind of Protein
Foods that contain all of the essential amino acids are called complete proteins. These foods include beef, chicken, fish, eggs, milk and just about anything else derived from animal sources. Incomplete proteins don't have all of the essential amino acids and generally include vegetables, fruits, grains, seeds and nuts. So, if you're a vegetarian, does this mean you can't get complete protein? Not at all. Below is a chart listing some incomplete proteins. To get all of the essential amino acids, simply choose foods from two or more of the columns.
Grains Legumes Seeds & Nuts Vegetables
Barley Beans Sesame Seeds Leafy Greens
Corn Meal Lentils Sunflower Seeds Broccoli
Oats Peas Walnuts
Rice Peanuts Cashews
Pasta Soy Products Other Nuts
Whole Grain Breads
So you need to once again, eat twice the amount of foods to get what you could gain in a simple meal with meat in it.
Eating meat is more efficient. The way we evolved, efficiency is incredibly important/valuable to our personal success. If I spend more time preparing foods to get all of the nutrients I need, I am being less productive and am therefore less valuable to society.
Meh... I have to go to bed now. |
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| Krypton |
| The fact of the matter is, our intelligence evolved from our predatory nature. |
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