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Meat eaters! Why do you eat other animals? (pg. 25)
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
No. You don't have to eat meat. You can get all the nutrients you need without killing any animals. It's a selfish desire. Saying it's a need is just ridiculous. |
I'd say you're hard pressed to find vitamins A, B12 and D3 (not related substances and analogues like beta carotene, but the real biolavailable ) without meat. It can be done with supplements/pills if that's your thing. I prefer to eat as naturally as possible and try to avoid taking pills or other artificial products... but that aside.
The slaughter of animals for meat is self-motivated certainly, but not selfish. Selfish implies I am putting my interests ahead of the interests of someone else.. another "reasonable creature in being" (to borrow an old legal formulation). Killing a prey animal for food does not fall under this category.
Most herbivores eat food constantly and in a solitary manner, even if they're surrounded by the herd. Extracting macronutrients from vegetable matter in a savannah environment usually requires continuous consumption that doesn't lend itself to set mealtimes.
Social carnivores will only eat when they've made a kill and will hunt in packs and share the kill. Our cousins the chimpanzees alter their eating behaviour on the rare occasion that they kill a monkey.. they share the kill around, the feast becomes an exciting social occasion.
Even today, snacks like fruit or nuts are eaten casually, but meals involving meat are consumed in groups in a social setting.. in fact we often feel a little awkward sitting down to eat a hot meal by ourselves. It is likely that hunting was one of the first activities that we learned to do as a group, and meat- one of the first commodities we learned to share for the common good. Obtaining and consuming meat was an activity that probably helped us to develop notions of sharing and place taboos on selfishness. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
It's completely selfish. You don't need to do it to survive. It's so easy to live without meat, but people are selfish and lazy. That's all it is.
Why is it so hard to admit? I'm selfish and lazy too. I have a car. I could walk, but the car takes less time and is easier. |
The ability to does not imply selfishness, selfishness in your views are directly related to a moral quandary. Since ethics and morals are never absolutes it is pointless to argue that selfishness comes from them since they are viewed differently in the eyes of others. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| you really are brave and gentle and wise, astro. |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
It's completely selfish. You don't need to do it to survive. It's so easy to live without meat, but people are selfish and lazy. That's all it is.
Why is it so hard to admit? I'm selfish and lazy too. I have a car. I could walk, but the car takes less time and is easier. |
It's so easy to live without ever scratching an itch.. just ignore it and it'll go away! That doesn't make scratching selfish.. at the end of the day it doesn't hurt anyone. I don't need to sleep on a soft bed to survive, or eat anything nice, or drink alcohol, or listen to music. There are many things that aren't, strictly speaking, necessary but that doesn't make them selfish. As long as I'm not hurting anyone I don't need to justify my behaviour.
It's becoming increasingly apparent that your argument rests solidly on the assumption that killing an animal is inherently wrong.
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
you really are brave and gentle and wise, astro. |
lol.. hey wait if we cooperate we can hunt this vegan down and share his nutritious flesh and use his hide for warmth! |
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| Abercrombie |
If you have to supplement, it's not natural.
Fcuk you vegans and your supplements. |
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| djhaziel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Renzo
I hear djhaziel doesn't eat meat because it reminds him of which, in turn, reminds him of college.
Can anyone confirm? :) |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by astroboy
It's so easy to live without ever scratching an itch.. just ignore it and it'll go away! That doesn't ake scratching selfish.. at the end of the day it doesn't hurt anyone. I don't need to sleep on a soft bed to survive, or eat anything nice, or drink alcohol, or listen to music. There are many things that aren't, strictly speaking, necessary but that doesn't make them selfish. As long as I'm not hurting anyone I don't need to justify my behaviour.
It's becoming increasingly apparent that your argument rests solidly on the assumption that killing an animal is inherently wrong. |
Thats what I said. You could even extrapolate what I said out to include everything.
People are going to do things that you feel are immoral and unjust at some level. Community and social standards are dictated by the majority (at least in natural progressions, minus the hand of government or religion obviously) and since you are strongly in the minority you really can only hope that some day the majority changes to suit your view point. Otherwise the majority will not see an issue with it because it is the social/community norm.
In short. Stop trying, you will waste your life and end up unfulfilled and depressed because you are fighting something that can not be changed, especially in this case where the norm was established hundreds of millions of years ago during the evolution of all life on this planet. |
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| Gauss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
If you needed to justify why you eat animals, how would you do it?
I am interested to know if people would use religion to back it up, or if there is a different reason (evolutionary/scientific etc.)
Unique answers are appreciated and please don't be afraid to admit if it's because of religion. If it is, please clarify (specific scriptures etc.) |
People are omnivores. Simple as that.
Also, no meat, no bodybuilder. :p |
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| Lews |
Not at all. I believe that it's wrong, but I am more than aware that not everybody cares about animals at all. Some people just don't give a . That's individuality. Some of us care, some of us don't. We're all different.
If my opinion was based solely on animal rights, for me the whole issue of eating meat would then just be entirely personal. Some people care and don't eat meat, some people don't care and eat it.
The fact that eating meat is bad for you it another personal thing. Some people care about their health, others do not, to the same extent. Some people smoke, some people don't. *shrug*
But the fact that the meat industry is one of the leading causes of environmental damage means that it is not just a personal health issue or a personal morals issue. It's a community issue. I get mad at people driving Hummer's that get 8 MPG. Just because they want a big car they're going to ruin our earth? Just because you want to eat steak means you're going to ruin our earth? That's pure selfishness.
Obviously nobody is going to be swayed in this thread. You all see me as a crazy hippie vegan fag and will just bash whatever I say. And obviously you all don't care about the animal cruelty part of it and are going to ignore the environmental part. I still maintain that it's selfish and lazy to eat meat. You're free to disagree. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
Not at all. I believe that it's wrong, but I am more than aware that not everybody cares about animals at all. Some people just don't give a . That's individuality. Some of us care, some of us don't. We're all different.
If my opinion was based solely on animal rights, for me the whole issue of eating meat would then just be entirely personal. Some people care and don't eat meat, some people don't care and eat it.
The fact that eating meat is bad for you it another personal thing. Some people care about their health, others do not, to the same extent. Some people smoke, some people don't. *shrug* |
you're such a sanctimonious twat. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
And obviously you all don't care about the animal cruelty part of it and are going to ignore the environmental part. I still maintain that it's selfish and lazy to eat meat. You're free to disagree. |
Yea your right about a lot of stuff... but honestly, the animals. If we can't stop murdering each other and killing each other for whatever reasons, then the last thing I care about is if someone is cruel to my chicken nuggets.
Then again, all animals are violent creatures at some point. |
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| astroboy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
If my opinion was based solely on animal rights, for me the whole issue of eating meat would then just be entirely personal. Some people care and don't eat meat, some people don't care and eat it. |
Fair enough.
| quote: | | The fact that eating meat is bad for you it another personal thing. Some people care about their health, others do not, to the same extent. Some people smoke, some people don't. *shrug* |
Some people prefer to decide what is or isn't healthy based on the vast bulk of nutrition science and common sense (replicating the balance of an early human's diet.. which we have evolved to require). And others tend to accept information selectively when it supports their pre-determined position (even some professional researchers), making leaps like "powdered casein increases the risk of cancer in rats, therefore all forms of all animal proteins are bad for you".
| quote: | | But the fact that the meat industry is one of the leading causes of environmental damage means that it is not just a personal health issue or a personal morals issue. It's a community issue. |
Sure, push for better standards. Many choose to only buy meat that was grown on sustainable, free-range farms.
| quote: | | Obviously nobody is going to be swayed in this thread. You all see me as a crazy hippie vegan fag and will just bash whatever I say. |
No bashing here (except for in jest). Most arguments have been backed by reasoning or evidence.
| quote: | | And obviously you all don't care about the animal cruelty part. |
I don't like people that torture animals any more than you. I buy free-range eggs. I just don't see the hasty dispatch of an animal that isn't aware of its impending demise as cruel. |
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