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christians (pg. 5)
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| eRRaTiK |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
I'd say that plague and famine have killed more people than religious wars, but I guess I don't really have the exact numbers to back that up... |
ok allow me correct my statement then. I'm referring to reasons as cited by man, and at the hand of man, not natural disasters/events.
REPHRASE >> There have been many deaths "in the name of god". |
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| inconspicuous |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
I'd say that plague and famine have killed more people than religious wars, but I guess I don't really have the exact numbers to back that up...
UNLESS you consider that plagues and famines were merely blessings from our god to rid the world of all those nasty infidels and heathens, in which case it would still be considered under religious termination jurisdiction. :O
Xtianity doesn't bother me - xtians usually do. And it's not because of all the unanswered questions or those little subtleties that people try to cram down each other's throats with an awesomely faux-athiest agenda, as though they're sooo smart because they've found faults in the system that cannot be resolved with their limited pleb logic. Xtians bother me because they are so content with what they believe to be the one truth - the only truth - and the authority for this truth is not from a present authority, but from the fact that they, themselves, have made a decision to stop seeking. And it's not as though they all bug me - mostly just the right-wing idiot heads who think that Jesus hates fags - it's usually just the vocal minority who it up for everyone else, but that's humans for ya, I guess. |
First, it's important to note that you're referring to the people with whom you have had interaction, with whom you have discussed religion, and, most importantly, have expressed to you their beliefs. The vast majority of people don't mention their own religious views, particularly in everyday conversation, so you're already talking about a very limited group.
Second, the decision to cease to grow intellectually is one which is far from being exclusive to Christians.
Third, conservative political views do not an intolerant bigot make. It's yet another small sect which really has no place in any serious discussion due to both its lack of size and relevance. This goes back to the point about claiming a religion and following it. Such people are not actually following Christianity, let alone representing it. |
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| inconspicuous |
| quote: | Originally posted by lex400sc
you should hear the christian explanation for birth defects and mental retardation :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: |
There is no such thing. |
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| inconspicuous |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
This is an extremely common viewpoint, but I think it's important to consider how convenient it is that our concepts for 'admirable traits and nobility' stem, primarily, from religious teachings. Is it possible that our very concepts of what is right and what is wrong come directly from major religious doctrines? Even people who do not consider themselves religious in the least, or even anti-religious, may find themselves adhering to these precepts of accord and noble propriety. How far does the Xtian hegemony go?
Seems to me that any step to try and disconnect and disseminate the cause and source of such precepts is a step in the right direction. Not necessarily total opposition to, but really what makes all these Xtian ideas so essential to human prosperity and are the ideas you have about Xtianity really true or are they merely offset shadows of a darker doctrine of intolerant contradiction???.
Tonight, on Nightline. |
It is, in fact, an interesting question, but it also brings into question much more complex ideas regarding instinct and conscience. |
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| eRRaTiK |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Is it possible that our very concepts of what is right and what is wrong come directly from major religious doctrines? |
So before there were religions there was no right and wrong? |
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| inconspicuous |
| quote: | Originally posted by Taranis
He's exagurating the number of people who have died due to religion, stating that it is higher than any other cause, which I think is false.
My point wasn't that they would eventually die anyway, of course they will. My point was that they would have died exactly the same way, at the same time, even if religion didn't exist, they'd simply be fighting for purely political reasons instead of under a religious pretence.
How the hell do you interpret that as a 'jab' at Islam? It was an example provided to make my point, nothing more. |
Ok
Well, it could not have been exactly the same, but there is the possibility that it would have been a similar outcome, in any case. Nevertheless, I still have a problem with the idea that 'why' and 'how' are irrelevant, as long as 'what' remains the same.
After rereading it, as I mentioned above, it may have been innocuous. It just felt out of place. |
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| inconspicuous |
| quote: | Originally posted by eRRaTiK
REPHRASE >> There have been many deaths "in the name of god". |
Hard to argue with that, though it's also important to point out that this number has decreased dramatically in recent times. |
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| inconspicuous |
| quote: | Originally posted by eRRaTiK
So before there were religions there was no right and wrong? |
Even that could be uncertain. That's why I say that it's a very complicated discussion, as it begins to call everything into question, even before birth. Descartes wants in. :p |
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| Fledz |
I just hate the way that non-religious people take such a high and mighty stance on the issue as to say "No you're stupid, we're right, you're wrong. I can't believe that in the 21st century you still believe in that crap. How can you see it's not true" and then go on to blame religious people for everything.
Sure, religious people do the same thing but only the extremists and they are the vocal ones. You don't see the majority of them ramming their beliefs down people's throats. If people ask, they will tell them and if not, so be it.
We don't need to be told how stupid we are and how our beliefs have ruined everything. If you want religious people (the majority who are more than happy to go on with their normal days) to act normally and not ram their beliefs down your throats, then we don't need to hear your new age beliefs either. Just because you cannot fathom their being "something" out there, doesn't make your "belief" (and that's what it is, a belief) any more valid than a religious persons. |
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| Fledz |
| quote: | Originally posted by eRRaTiK
So before there were religions there was no right and wrong? |
There was always religion or a type of faith. Fire was the very first thing we worshipped, long before we even became remotely intelligent.
EDIT - No sorry, actually it was the Sun and nature which came even before that. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by inconspicuous
First, it's important to note that you're referring to the people with whom you have had interaction, with whom you have discussed religion, and, most importantly, have expressed to you their beliefs. The vast majority of people don't mention their own religious views, particularly in everyday conversation, so you're already talking about a very limited group. |
Yeah. I'm speaking from experience. I know. But how do you know that the group is so 'limited'? In your experience, are devout Xtians you have known very scholarly and bright, tolerant human beings - paragon transmissions reflecting an immaculate figure the very existence of 2000 years is still in scholastic dispute? Or are they just average schmoes, followin' the ways they mom n dad taught em ta?
| quote: | | Second, the decision to cease to grow intellectually is one which is far from being exclusive to Christians. |
True enough. But it's a common enough excuse to raise attention to.
| quote: | | Third, conservative political views do not an intolerant bigot make. |
haha, was this intentionally written like Yoda or were you just trying too hard? Either way, it's an entirely a matter of perspective. :stongue:
| quote: | | It's yet another small sect which really has no place in any serious discussion due to both its lack of size and relevance. This goes back to the point about claiming a religion and following it. Such people are not actually following Christianity, let alone representing it. |
I would argue this and claim that it's very much locational. The United States has an enormous population of evangelical Xtians who follow whatever conservative radio, television and sermon tell them to do and to think. This may very well side more with a political agenda than a religious one, and the fault may not entirely be religion's - but enough people are breeding and raising their kids as little simulacra for their conservative bile to make it a very major issue in the US. You'll start seeing the results soon enough - I bet it turns out to be exceedingly similar to political/religious extremists in middle eastern countries. Xtian terrorism. Coming soon. |
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| Fledz |
| quote: | Originally posted by inconspicuous
Third, conservative political views do not an intolerant bigot make. It's yet another small sect which really has no place in any serious discussion due to both its lack of size and relevance. This goes back to the point about claiming a religion and following it. Such people are not actually following Christianity, let alone representing it. |
Why are they not representing it? Let's take for example Catholicism. Are you grouping us all and basically treating us like we all act the same?
I know plenty of Christians that have used their religion to better their life and others without actually preaching or causing turmoil. It's very high and mighty to dismiss people because of their personal belief. |
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