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Who Actually Produces Dance Music/Who Claims To Produce But Doesn't (pg. 26)
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| Tosh |
| quote: | Originally posted by PGGuy
Interesting how several have replied "This is already out there." and "Everyone already knows this". |
Thats because its not a big deal, why is there such a thing as producers if no one uses them?
One guy sitting at his computer can be great, but having a few other people put their touch on it makes it SOOOO much better! Theres lots of duos that are together just for this reason! Or one will produce and the other will spin.
BIG SHOCKER!!!!!
Get a F*cking life! You areso hungry to tear apart the people who bring good music to your ears! Relax and enjoy the noise instead!!!! |
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| dj dani lehman |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jason Jollins
My apologies in writing so much in this thread but I just have so much to say in regards to this topic, much more than I am even writing here :) The good thing for me is that I have already written a lot of this in a past interview so the copy and paste method is making this long post easy.
If you look at Rock, Hip Hop, Pop, Country, etc..., many of your favorite artists use producers and engineers to make the music that you love so much. Britney Spears, Justin Timberlake & Madonna for example use Engineers to make there tracks as well as writers to write (or to at least help write) there lyrics. This is how the music industry works.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of confusion amongst Electronic Dance Music fans worldwide who think that dj'ing and production is one in the same. And there is a very big difference between a person who produces music and one who actually dj's.
It's almost impossible (especially in today's age) to break through as a dj alone. Unless one of the top dj's take you under there wing and bring you up, the only real option to become globally known is through producing (making) great tracks. In turn, what you have are the worlds best producers touring the world as dj's, while the worlds best dj's are playing in there bedroom or in there local pub.
Of course in some cases an artist comes along who is a great Dj as well as a great producer, or is at least a great dj with a great production partner / engineer. Either way, it's much easier and much more accessible for someone to listen to a 7 minute track than it is for someone to listen to an 80 minute dj mix from a dj they never heard of before.
Using Deadmau5 as an example. He made great tracks and these tracks were played by many of the worlds most popular dj's spanning many different sub-genre's of EDM. Music fans saw Deadmau5's productions being tracklisted by there favorite DJ's and in turn he became very popular.
If Deadmau5 was not a producer and if he was a DJ, he could have made thousands of DJ Mixes and no one would have known his name. Afterall, a DJ mix is 60 - 80 minutes long, if you are going to download a DJ mix, chances are that you will download a DJ mix from one of your favorite DJ's rather than to download a DJ mix from a DJ you have never heard of before.
If you look at many of the top dj's in the world, you will see that they "initially" became known through there production work, not because they were great dj's. Name your favorite DJ, I'll tell you what track (s) made him / her famous.
With that said, before Ableton live came out, producers would get known through there productions but a lot of them would remain in the studio producing music rather than touring the world as a dj. The reason for this was because they were professional producers and aside from just playing tracks, they didn't have the experience or skills to be a professional DJ.
Now with programs like Ableton live, you see a lot of great producers who have never toured as dj's before now touring. The reason for this is because Ableton allows artists to put together a pre-programmed set (if they choose to). Because of this, you have "some" producers showing up to there shows with a laptop and a preprogrammed set where they just press the play button in ableton and pretend that they are actually doing something. And this is not a diss on Ableton DJ's because there are some who do great things with the program (DJ Sasha for example).
Now speaking as a clubber and a fan of the art of DJ'ing: I personally find it very discouraging when an artist shows up to a show and is jumping around pretending they are doing something when they are in fact just playing a pre-mixed set in ableton live. Everyone is being cheated in my opinion. It's equivalent to a singer who lip-syncs at a concert.
I feel that the art of dj'ing is dying. The reason for this is because there is no real way to compare dj's on a global scale.
In sports, you can clearly see who is the best in a particular sport. There is no denying that Tiger Woods is presently one of the best Golfers. Michael Jordan was without a doubt one of the best basketball players of his time. You could clearly see this by watching any basketball game for which he played.
Unfortunately, there is no real way to compare dj's. You can pick your favorite dj among the dj's that are touring to your city, but those are generally the same dj's that are touring every city in the world, and have been doing so for years. This is the reason why the same DJ's are constantly listed in the DJ Mag Top 100 year after year, because these are the only DJ's getting global exposure and the voting system is based on popularity and name recognition.
Many of the top dj's that are touring have in one way or another been a huge inspiration to me. They without a doubt deserve to be where they are and deserve the recognition that they have. Most of them are great dj's and they in one way or another helped to create, build, and contribute to the scene that we all have and love today.
But there are also so many great dj's in the world that are completely unknown, and unfortunately will never be known. And the reason why they will never be known is because they either aren't connected to the right people, they didn't make a big impact through dj'ing when being a great dj is all that was needed to become known, or they simply don't produce music.
To mention Deadmau5 again (who I can only assume will respond to what I am saying being that he does post here often), he is a perfect example of a great Producer who many EDM fans confuse with being a great DJ. After producing some great tracks, he was immediately voted into the 11th spot in last years DJ Mag top 100 DJ's list.
In a recent but not so recent interview Deadmau5 said the following:
“It puts me to ing sleep to be quite honest, I don’t really see the technical merit in playing two songs at the same speed together and it bores me to ing tears and hopefully with all due respect to the dj type that will ing go the way of the dinosaur id like them to dis-a-ing-pear. To say you become this massive up on a podium performer by playing other peoples productions at the same speed as someone else’s productions and fading between the two of them, I don’t get it.”
Case in point, the reason why Deadmau5 "doesn't get it" is because he is a producer and he does not understand the art of DJ'ing. DJ'ing is a very intricate skill and form of art, a great DJ certainly does not "just play tracks".
And I am not picking on Deadmau5 here because he is a great producer and he deserves a lot of respect for his accomplishments. However, he does make a perfect example for the DJ vs. Producer argument.
So to sum this all up...
The art of DJ'ing and the art of music Production are two entirely different things.
Many DJ's use engineers to help them produce tracks, this not only happens in EDM, but it happens in many other forms of music as well.
I do not see a problem with a DJ using an engineer to make tracks.
I do however see a problem with a Producer performing as a DJ and trying to push the EDM scene if they do not know how to compose a professional DJ set. By doing so they are only being selfish and they are hurting the art of this music as a whole on a global level.
There is absolutely no way to have a DJ rating system based on talent, it is all based on popularity, and popularity is based on which dj's have the most exposure on a global level.
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very very well said Jason :)
i was gunna go on a rant but i decided against it. J pretty much summed it all up.
Moral of the story... Become a great dj WHILE producing and u'll be fine lol |
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| sandstorm03 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jason Jollins
My apologies in writing so much in this thread but I just have so much to say in regards to this topic, much more than I am even writing here :) The good thing for me is that I have already written a lot of this in a past interview so the copy and paste method is making this long post easy.
If you look at Rock, Hip Hop, Pop, Country, etc..., many of your favorite artists use producers and engineers to make the music that you love so much. Britney Spears, Justin Timberlake & Madonna for example use Engineers to make there tracks as well as writers to write (or to at least help write) there lyrics. This is how the music industry works.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of confusion amongst Electronic Dance Music fans worldwide who think that dj'ing and production is one in the same. And there is a very big difference between a person who produces music and one who actually dj's.
It's almost impossible (especially in today's age) to break through as a dj alone. Unless one of the top dj's take you under there wing and bring you up, the only real option to become globally known is through producing (making) great tracks. In turn, what you have are the worlds best producers touring the world as dj's, while the worlds best dj's are playing in there bedroom or in there local pub.
Of course in some cases an artist comes along who is a great Dj as well as a great producer, or is at least a great dj with a great production partner / engineer. Either way, it's much easier and much more accessible for someone to listen to a 7 minute track than it is for someone to listen to an 80 minute dj mix from a dj they never heard of before.
Using Deadmau5 as an example. He made great tracks and these tracks were played by many of the worlds most popular dj's spanning many different sub-genre's of EDM. Music fans saw Deadmau5's productions being tracklisted by there favorite DJ's and in turn he became very popular.
If Deadmau5 was not a producer and if he was a DJ, he could have made thousands of DJ Mixes and no one would have known his name. Afterall, a DJ mix is 60 - 80 minutes long, if you are going to download a DJ mix, chances are that you will download a DJ mix from one of your favorite DJ's rather than to download a DJ mix from a DJ you have never heard of before.
If you look at many of the top dj's in the world, you will see that they "initially" became known through there production work, not because they were great dj's. Name your favorite DJ, I'll tell you what track (s) made him / her famous.
With that said, before Ableton live came out, producers would get known through there productions but a lot of them would remain in the studio producing music rather than touring the world as a dj. The reason for this was because they were professional producers and aside from just playing tracks, they didn't have the experience or skills to be a professional DJ.
Now with programs like Ableton live, you see a lot of great producers who have never toured as dj's before now touring. The reason for this is because Ableton allows artists to put together a pre-programmed set (if they choose to). Because of this, you have "some" producers showing up to there shows with a laptop and a preprogrammed set where they just press the play button in ableton and pretend that they are actually doing something. And this is not a diss on Ableton DJ's because there are some who do great things with the program (DJ Sasha for example).
Now speaking as a clubber and a fan of the art of DJ'ing: I personally find it very discouraging when an artist shows up to a show and is jumping around pretending they are doing something when they are in fact just playing a pre-mixed set in ableton live. Everyone is being cheated in my opinion. It's equivalent to a singer who lip-syncs at a concert.
I feel that the art of dj'ing is dying. The reason for this is because there is no real way to compare dj's on a global scale.
In sports, you can clearly see who is the best in a particular sport. There is no denying that Tiger Woods is presently one of the best Golfers. Michael Jordan was without a doubt one of the best basketball players of his time. You could clearly see this by watching any basketball game for which he played.
Unfortunately, there is no real way to compare dj's. You can pick your favorite dj among the dj's that are touring to your city, but those are generally the same dj's that are touring every city in the world, and have been doing so for years. This is the reason why the same DJ's are constantly listed in the DJ Mag Top 100 year after year, because these are the only DJ's getting global exposure and the voting system is based on popularity and name recognition.
Many of the top dj's that are touring have in one way or another been a huge inspiration to me. They without a doubt deserve to be where they are and deserve the recognition that they have. Most of them are great dj's and they in one way or another helped to create, build, and contribute to the scene that we all have and love today.
But there are also so many great dj's in the world that are completely unknown, and unfortunately will never be known. And the reason why they will never be known is because they either aren't connected to the right people, they didn't make a big impact through dj'ing when being a great dj is all that was needed to become known, or they simply don't produce music.
To mention Deadmau5 again (who I can only assume will respond to what I am saying being that he does post here often), he is a perfect example of a great Producer who many EDM fans confuse with being a great DJ. After producing some great tracks, he was immediately voted into the 11th spot in last years DJ Mag top 100 DJ's list.
In a recent but not so recent interview Deadmau5 said the following:
“It puts me to ing sleep to be quite honest, I don’t really see the technical merit in playing two songs at the same speed together and it bores me to ing tears and hopefully with all due respect to the dj type that will ing go the way of the dinosaur id like them to dis-a-ing-pear. To say you become this massive up on a podium performer by playing other peoples productions at the same speed as someone else’s productions and fading between the two of them, I don’t get it.”
Case in point, the reason why Deadmau5 "doesn't get it" is because he is a producer and he does not understand the art of DJ'ing. DJ'ing is a very intricate skill and form of art, a great DJ certainly does not "just play tracks".
And I am not picking on Deadmau5 here because he is a great producer and he deserves a lot of respect for his accomplishments. However, he does make a perfect example for the DJ vs. Producer argument.
So to sum this all up...
The art of DJ'ing and the art of music Production are two entirely different things.
Many DJ's use engineers to help them produce tracks, this not only happens in EDM, but it happens in many other forms of music as well.
I do not see a problem with a DJ using an engineer to make tracks.
I do however see a problem with a Producer performing as a DJ and trying to push the EDM scene if they do not know how to compose a professional DJ set. By doing so they are only being selfish and they are hurting the art of this music as a whole on a global level.
There is absolutely no way to have a DJ rating system based on talent, it is all based on popularity, and popularity is based on which dj's have the most exposure on a global level.
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best post in a while |
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| PGGuy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tosh
Thats because its not a big deal, why is there such a thing as producers if no one uses them?
One guy sitting at his computer can be great, but having a few other people put their touch on it makes it SOOOO much better! Theres lots of duos that are together just for this reason! Or one will produce and the other will spin.
BIG SHOCKER!!!!!
Get a F*cking life! You areso hungry to tear apart the people who bring good music to your ears! Relax and enjoy the noise instead!!!! |
I agree with ya, but there are some out there merely hiring producers to produce for them, and taking the credit. If it isn't a big deal, then why don't these dj's just say "DJ pres. Producer - Song" ? |
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| PGGuy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tosh
Thats because its not a big deal, why is there such a thing as producers if no one uses them?
One guy sitting at his computer can be great, but having a few other people put their touch on it makes it SOOOO much better! Theres lots of duos that are together just for this reason! Or one will produce and the other will spin.
BIG SHOCKER!!!!!
Get a F*cking life! You areso hungry to tear apart the people who bring good music to your ears! Relax and enjoy the noise instead!!!! |
I agree with ya, but there are some out there merely hiring producers to produce for them, and taking the credit. If it isn't a big deal, then why don't these dj's just say "DJ pres. Producer - Song" ? |
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| PGGuy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Domesticated
If a lot of people say it's true; it must be. Great logic.
Though I suppose if I were to say 'PGGuy is a complete and utter tool', everyone would agree with me and it would be the exception that proves the rule. |
If the news has made it my way from several sources who don't know each other, then the rumour is already out there. This forum can be used to dispel the rumours. |
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| PGGuy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stassi
Honestly, why would A film production hire Paul Oakenfold to score a film when Oakenfold is merely passing the job off to his lackeys. If that were the case there would be thousands of other music producers who would get the job done much cheaper who don't carry the Oakenfold pricetag. Making films is all about saving money everywhere you can because so much money is spent above the line, on set and on prostitutes and cocaine for your main stars. |
Because they are unaware. They like the Oakenfold sound. Oakenfold hires a solid team. |
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| PGGuy |
| quote: | Originally posted by Light The Fuse
main point is awesome - the craft of djing is suffering because as you said with deadmau5 as an example and i have noticed this a fair bit in my time - many producers see djing as just mixing some tunes...and yeah generally if they are thinking that way - it makes for a dj - which is happening more and more.
now you should all go to school and have a listen to a phil k set :cool: |
DJing is certainly a craft, and I think it is a shame that DJs have to put their name on productions to get gigs for the most part. A solid DJ makes the craft look deceptively easy. |
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| deadmau5 |
after reading all this from all these experts...
i just cant even come close to believing that, even after all this is said, tranceaddict still can't produce the industries most in-the-know, creative, most affluent, technically efficient, marketing genius, most popular, and "coolest" ing DJ ever.
... or at least a good manager / agent.
why is that? |
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| woscar |
Kudos for using the "let's see you do better argument".  |
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| cherrybarry |
| quote: | Originally posted by deadmau5
after reading all this from all these experts...
i just cant even come close to believing that, even after all this is said, tranceaddict still can't produce the industries most in-the-know, creative, most affluent, technically efficient, marketing genius, most popular, and "coolest" ing DJ ever.
... or at least a good manager / agent.
why is that? |
because no one here is trying to:rolleyes: |
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| supersaw abuse |
| quote: | Originally posted by deadmau5
after reading all this from all these experts...
i just cant even come close to believing that, even after all this is said, tranceaddict still can't produce the industries most in-the-know, creative, most affluent, technically efficient, marketing genius, most popular, and "coolest" ing DJ ever.
... or at least a good manager / agent.
why is that? |
i dunno, mau5man... please enlighten us with your wisdom... |
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