|
GM declares bankruptcy (pg. 14)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Domesticated
Yes it does, it's more likely to injure them. |
And I'v asked you for the statistic that confirms this.
You want to post the part you want me to look at? I'm not reading that whole thing. And again, I'm asking for a statistic that shows trucks like the F-150 cause more traffic accident deaths. |
|
|
| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
You just called me retarded for saying all countries should respect very basic human rights which I outlined. 17sss clearly has a right to own an F-150 truck. He has that right. The government can make it difficult to own one. It can come up with fees to discourage the ownership of such a vehicle. Charge a carbon tax or something. But if liberty is to be respected, the government cannot simply outlaw the owning of a street legal pick up truck. |
I never said he didn't "have the right". Legally, he does, of course. I also have the right to go and but 500 reams of paper and throw them in the bin if I want, but I don't, because I have something called a social conscience. You and 17sss obviously don't have this, along with a great proportion of the American population. This is why the world is going to . |
|
|
| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
And I'v asked you for the statistic that confirms this.
You want to post the part you want me to look at? I'm not reading that whole thing. And again, I'm asking for a statistic that shows trucks like the F-150 cause more traffic accident deaths. |
For s' sake. There is a table half way down. Just skip all the text and go to the table. It lists about 25 vehicles and gives figures. |
|
|
| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Domesticated
I never said he didn't "have the right". Legally, he does, of course. I also have the right to go and but 500 reams of paper and throw them in the bin if I want, but I don't, because I have something called a social conscience. You and 17sss obviously don't have this, along with a great proportion of the American population. This is why the world is going to . |
Yea, we have no social conscience, boo ing hoo. It's all Amerikkka's fault! |
|
|
| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Domesticated
For s' sake. There is a table half way down. Just skip all the text and go to the table. It lists about 25 vehicles and gives figures. |
Honestly, 238 deaths per MILLION trucks, is hardly a reason to outlaw the owning of such a vehicle. According to that study, F series trucks aren't as safe as many of the other vehicles. Okay, that in no way is a reason to outlaw them. |
|
|
| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Honestly, 238 deaths per MILLION trucks, is hardly a reason to outlaw the owning of such a vehicle. According to that study, F series trucks aren't as safe as many of the other vehicles. Okay, that in no way is a reason to outlaw them. |
I'm sorry, did you miss all this?
| quote: | Originally posted by Domesticated
Really? Take a look at this:
http://www.bridger.us/2002/12/16/Cr...ooperVsFordF150
You’re just a typical exponent of the “big equals better” movement, which is an awful assumption. Here’s why LTVs and SUVs are bad:
1. Longer stopping distance.
How are you going to stop yourself rear-ending that person or sliding off that icy road when your stopping distance is twice that of a smaller, more sensible sized car?
2. Higher centre of gravity
SUVs and LTVs are far more likely to roll. Look at this study and see that cars roll over and cause fatalities 22% of the time, while for SUVs that figure is an astonishing 61%!
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/portal/sit...ewType=standard
3. Greater weight means greater danger for other vehicles.
See study below which shows that, since 1992, LTV vs car crashes have been the highest fatality causing kind of accident out of car vs car, LTV vs car and LTV vs LTV. Note also that LTV to LTV collision deaths have risen quite steadily from 1992, while car to car deaths have dropped dramatically.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/portal/sit...ewType=standard
4. Lower manoeuvring capabilities
I don’t need to provide a study for this. We all know that larger cars are less agile and thus less able to steer away from potential accidents.
5. Size impairs other drivers’ vision.
This is the one that annoys me the most. I’m an extremely pro-active driver and tend to look five to six cars ahead in gridlock and half a kilometre ahead on clear roads. Large cars block vision above them and around them, meaning drivers behind are unaware of traffic conditions ahead. This causes more accidents.
6. LTV size increases load on road, meaning more road maintenance is required over time.
7. LTV size takes up more space on road, meaning traffic jams are larger than need be, and less vehicles will fit in a given parking area.
8. LTVs (generally) have slow acceleration, meaning traffic moves more slowly and accidents which could have been avoided by speeding up increase.
So, even if you’re selfish enough to actually disregard that you’re more dangerous to others on the road, you should at least be able to acknowledge that you’re unsafe to yourself. While heavier vehicles may perform better when they DO crash, they are far more likely to get into crashes in the first place, as illustrated by this study:
http://www.gladwell.com/2004/2004_01_12_a_suv.html
It debunks your claims regarding CAFE quite well. |
|
|
|
| saluyamo |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
What's with the "America is " talk now? haha... I don't see people risking their lives on rubber rafts in shark infested waters to get to Tazmania or Canada. America bashing cracks me up. |
Maybe you should checkout your map and see where 'Tazmania' and Canada are are. :) |
|
|
| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Domesticated
I'm sorry, did you miss all this? |
No I didn't. People die in car accidents. Nothing new. Once again, anytime someone goes on the road, they take the risk of getting into a car accidents. There are federal safety standards all vehicles must meet, and if they don't meet these standards, they aren't allowed on the roads. If you'r worked up over 238 deaths per million trucks, you'r wasting your time.
And how the did we get from GM bankruptcy to safety standards of trucks?? |
|
|
| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
And how the did we get from GM bankruptcy to safety standards of trucks?? |
GM make trucks. It was simple extrapolation :p |
|
|
| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by elFreak
wait what?
a post secondary education in america is more expensive than in any other of the big industrialized countries (private)
so is health care.
our health care is free here, so your theory holds about as much water as the raft the cuban is taking to escape a dictatorship. ;) |
Free huh? :haha:
Nothing is free. Maybe your taxes being significantly higher than ours has something to do with that "free" care. Plus, guess where people from Canada who can afford it go when they need specialized care? Across the border. You think the quality of the care in Canada is better than here? I'll take quality over waiting months/years for a procedure. Here's a link to about 100 horror stories and other inconvenient "free health care" stories that get swept under the rug (granted they come from the UK, but the Canadian model isn't any different really).
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/20...macare-and.html |
|
|
| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Free huh? :haha:
Nothing is free. Maybe your taxes being significantly higher than ours has something to do with that "free" care. Plus, guess where people from Canada who can afford it go when they need specialized care? Across the border. You think the quality of the care in Canada is better than here? I'll take quality over waiting months/years for a procedure. Here's a link to about 100 horror stories and other inconvenient "free health care" stories that get swept under the rug (granted they come from the UK, but the Canadian model isn't any different really).
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/20...macare-and.html |
lol, now ive seen everything! someone standing up for the US health system. and you're sadly mistaken if you think there are substantially more errors in public health than their private counterparts.
its crazy to champion a system no one can afford :stongue:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...ndamerica/view/ |
|
|
| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
lol, now ive seen everything! someone standing up for the US health system. and you're sadly mistaken if you think there are substantially more errors in public health than their private counterparts.
its crazy to champion a system no one can afford :stongue:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...ndamerica/view/ |
Yeah it's hard to afford, but you can't be denied medical care if you need it. By no means am I saying our health care system rules. But it is better than the alternative. Everyone knows that the best quality medical care, the best resources, and best medical research and teaching hopsitals are here. What's ing up our health care system? Medicare and Medicaid... government run programs that are going to bankrupt the system (and I'm not letting insurance companies off the hook either). Medical malpractice liability insurance costs are rediculous too, thanks to the "slip and fall" lawyers poisoning the system; Doctors are more and more reluctant to accept Medicare now.
There's so much wrong, but if the health care field were allowed to operate as any other free market business model dictates, you'd have fair market based pricing that people could afford (more or less). It's easy for young people who don't need "real" substantive care to say universal health care is the answer. But tell that to people who pull out their own teeth because they can't get to the dentist for 4 months... or people with cancer having to wait too long to get the chemo they need. Read the links to all those UK stores from my other post for god's sake. It's crazy to think politicians can make better medical decisions for people than medical professionals... deciding whether you will have an operation or not, an MRI or not, or receive a life-extending drug or not? Medical REFORM is the answer, not implementing a massive leviathan on our medical system that we can't afford. Who will run the hospitals... unions? Look how that worked out for GM. |
|
|
|
|
