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GM declares bankruptcy (pg. 29)
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
What do you expect when the government has a 60% equity stake in the company. That they are simply going to sit back and watch from the sidelines? This isn't surprising at all, and frankly, it's not even that big of a deal. |
Is it 60%? I thought it was 70%. Well anyway, when you take the words of the anointed one, yeah it kind of is a big deal... considering his claim of having no hand in its new running (even with a board of directors he appointed including union leaders) unless it is for a serious fundamental decision. Only 3 days later you're seeing that lie exposed. It's like, his supporters know he lies and they love it... they don't even care especially if it advances his agenda. |
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| The17sss |
| btw- did you get my PM reply? My computer froze as I sent it and I don't now if it went through. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Is it 60%? I thought it was 70%. Well anyway, when you take the words of the anointed one, yeah it kind of is a big deal... considering his claim of having no hand in its new running (even with a board of directors he appointed including union leaders) unless it is for a serious fundamental decision. Only 3 days later you're seeing that lie exposed. It's like, his supporters know he lies and they love it... they don't even care especially if it advances his agenda. |
Welcome to politics. At least he didn't say, "America does not torture." knowing full well we did. Nor did he launch an illegal war based on lies resulting in millions of ruined and dead lives. This GM issue is nothing more than a trivial issue. Or rather, a pathetic attempt from the right to discredit the president. Sorry 17sss, but you guys are going to have to do WAYYYY better than that...;) |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
it kind of is a big deal... |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Welcome to politics. At least he didn't say, "America does not torture." knowing full well we did. Nor did he launch an illegal war based on lies resulting in millions of ruined and dead lives. This GM issue is nothing more than a trivial issue. Or rather, a pathetic attempt from the right to discredit the president. Sorry 17sss, but you guys are going to have to do WAYYYY better than that...;) |
A trivial issue??? wow. He's discrediting himself dude. It looks like nothing but pure political payback to the Unions for all the cash and votes they provided him. And there you go again trying to bring Iraq into something totally unrelated. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
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HEY! For the recrod, I do have many leather bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany. ;) |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
btw- did you get my PM reply? My computer froze as I sent it and I don't now if it went through. |
Yea, I just responded..;) |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Yea, I just responded..;) |
cool thanks.:D |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
A trivial issue??? wow. He's discrediting himself dude. It looks like nothing but pure political payback to the Unions for all the cash and votes they provided him. And there you go again trying to bring Iraq into something totally unrelated. |
Notice how it's only hard line right wingers who are blowing this out of proportion. Nobody else could give two s about it.
You'r saying Obama lied aren't you? I'm simply laying out for you what a real lie entails. Look no further than Bush Administration. Additionally, the government isn't running the day-to-day operations of GM. Closing a plant though is a STRATEGIC decision and as a 60% stakeholder in the company, the government has every right to influence such a decision. There is no lie here. Just a twisting of words to suit a political attack on the president. Like I said, welcome to politics. These pathetic political attacks should be expected from a defunct minority party which has nothing else to go on. Face it, Obama is 100x better than Bush, or anything the Republicans could have fronted. McCain wouldn't have done 10% of the things Obama has done in just his first 5 months in office. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Notice how it's only hard line right wingers who are blowing this out of proportion. Nobody else could give two s about it.
You'r saying Obama lied aren't you? I'm simply laying out for you what a real lie entails. Look no further than Bush Administration. Additionally, the government isn't running the day-to-day operations of GM. Closing a plant though is a STRATEGIC decision and as a 60% stakeholder in the company, the government has every right to influence such a decision. There is no lie here. Just a twisting of words to suit a political attack on the president. Like I said, welcome to politics. These pathetic political attacks should be expected from a defunct minority party which has nothing else to go on. Face it, Obama is 100x better than Bush, or anything the Republicans could have fronted. McCain wouldn't have done 10% of the things Obama has done in just his first 5 months in office. |
But that's my point... they said they won't be running the day to days, yet we already see the Government hand doing just that 3 days later!
| quote: | | What we are not doing -- what I have no interest in doing -- is running GM. When a difficult decision has to be made on matters like where to open a new plant or what type of new car to make, the new GM, not the United States government, will make that decision. |
L.I.E. He's so busy not running it, that he also called Detroit's mayor the night before to instruct him on where the company's new location will end up (Warren, MI). The truth is that once the Govt. divests itself of its formal ownership stake, it will STILL be a GSE, exactly like Fannie and Freddie, and we all know how much government stayed out of that "private-public" enterprise.
But I digress- You can't predict what McCain would have done. You also can't say "face it... Obama's 100x better than Bush" when in one stroke of the pen he's increased our debt more than all the presidents before him combined, and since the day he was elected an average of 16,000 jobs per day have been lost. You can't keep trying to blame Bush forever- Obama owns the economy and the decision to put us $12+ trillion in debt. How's that stimulus going, by the way? Can we admit now that it was made to stimulate the democrat wish list and not the economy, considering 6% of it has actually been spent, mostly on social welfare programs. I could go on all day. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
But that's my point... they said they won't be running the day to days, yet we already see the Government hand doing just that 3 days later! |
Strategic decisions are hardly day-to-day operations.
| quote: | | L.I.E. He's so busy not running it, that he also called Detroit's mayor the night before to instruct him on where the company's new location will end up (Warren, MI). The truth is that once the Govt. divests itself of its formal ownership stake, it will STILL be a GSE, exactly like Fannie and Freddie, and we all know how much government stayed out of that "private-public" enterprise. |
Strategic decisions are not day-to-day operations.
| quote: | | But I digress- You can't predict what McCain would have done. You also can't say "face it... Obama's 100x better than Bush" when in one stroke of the pen he's increased our debt more than all the presidents before him combined, and since the day he was elected an average of 16,000 jobs per day have been lost. You can't keep trying to blame Bush forever- Obama owns the economy and the decision to put us $12+ trillion in debt. How's that stimulus going, by the way? Can we admit now that it was made to stimulate the democrat wish list and not the economy, considering 6% of it has actually been spent, mostly on social welfare programs. I could go on all day. |
I can because McCain's platform was basically a continuation of George Bush. Additionally, Obama was handed a economy, thanks to you know who(;)), and as a result, government was forced to increase expenditures to stimulate the economy. Thanks to, you know who (;)), we already had huge deficits despite a previously strong economy. So you cannot blame the current deficits on Obama.
How has the stimulus been going? Ask the stock market. It's up 26% since March. Confidence has been restored in the systemic integrity of the financial system. I think that in and of itself is a damn good job. Additionally, a $700 billion stimulus takes time to spend. No wonder 6% (I'm trusting your word on that stat) has been spent. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
How has the stimulus been going? Ask the stock market. It's up 26% since March. Confidence has been restored in the systemic integrity of the financial system. I think that in and of itself is a damn good job. Additionally, a $700 billion stimulus takes time to spend. No wonder 6% (I'm trusting your word on that stat) has been spent. |
He's doing both strategic and day to day... at least his hand picked appointees are. When he says the Govt will refrain from exercising its rights as a shareholder in all but the most fundamental decisions, he's trying to make it sound like he won't be involved. But "most fundamental" are the most important, like what kind of cars to make, where to open/close plants, etc. So what he's really saying is the exact opposite of the way it sounds which is, "We're not going to get involved in minutia." But 18-20K workers being affected, which is the number here, is not a small deal.
So, anyway, about the numbers... yeah 6% to date is right. But it was "such an emergency" that it had to be rammed through congress immediately or we'd be facing financial collapse of epic proportions, right? So why isn't more if it pouring in now? It's no mistake that a huge chunk of it will be spent in 2010 when it's election time.
Other than that, sweet... the market is up 26% since March. But the truth is being buried by the media.
1) 1 in 8 homeowners are now late or getting foreclosed on... a record.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?...refer=worldwide
2) Unemployment levels went higher in April, the highest in 25 years helping propel mortgage delinquencies and foreclosures to record highs.
http://www.reuters.com/article/bond...832609020090528
3) Unemployment to rise again next month from 8.9% to 9.2%
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090604...c_fi/us_economy
4) And read here to learn about the "hidden trillion dollar tax": http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAna....aspx?id=477967
So, we've spent how many millions and billions of dollars to stop those foreclosures and it hasn't made a dent. The automobile bailouts didn't work, the bank bailouts have not worked, the bailout of the mortgage industry has not worked, stemming foreclosures has not worked.... none of the political fixes have worked which is why I am such a strong proponant of the govt. getting the hell out of the way and letting private industry work on its own through the natural cycles. |
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