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GM declares bankruptcy (pg. 28)
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| DOOMBOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
You don't have an economic philosophy if you don't know anything about classical economics. |
What? :stongue: |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
I'll only add that economists are almost unanimous in suggesting that the only way out of the current crisis is increasing consumer demand. By "stimulating" demand, consumers will start buying goods again and profit margins will rise and get the gears of the economy turning again. Without demand, the economy isn't profitable and it becomes stagnant.
The New Deal created demand where the free market couldn't. World War II did the same. That's why we climbed out of the Great Depression. Any evidence you could bring to the table suggesting otherwise would be well-received, but all you've brought so far is conjecture and loosely-formed libertarian "ideals." |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
What? :stongue: |
Put it this way - if you don't know how to add and subtract, you probably don't know much about math. |
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| DOOMBOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
I'll only add that economists are almost unanimous in suggesting that the only way out of the current crisis is increasing consumer demand. By "stimulating" demand, consumers will start buying goods again and profit margins will rise and get the gears of the economy turning again. Without demand, the economy isn't profitable and it becomes stagnant.
The New Deal created demand where the free market couldn't. World War II did the same. That's why we climbed out of the Great Depression. Any evidence you could bring to the table suggesting otherwise would be well-received, but all you've brought so far is conjecture and loosely-formed libertarian "ideals." |
Tell you what. I'm extremely content with agreeing to disagree at this point. I also enjoyed this debate, I really did. Let us maybe come back in a year to discuss this, after time goes by and we see how things spell out. I think this is going to prove to be a very interesting year and I've got to be honest, I hope you and the people who hold your thought process are right, because these are the type of people running the show right now.
Thanks again! |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
Tell you what. I'm extremely content with agreeing to disagree at this point. I also enjoyed this debate, I really did. Let us maybe come back in a year to discuss this, after time goes by and we see how things spell out. I think this is going to prove to be a very interesting year and I've got to be honest, I hope you and the people who hold your thought process are right, because these are the type of people running the show right now.
Thanks again! |
Honestly, I'm with Krugman on this one. The people running the show right now aren't doing nearly enough. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
Lots and lots of spending happened from 1933 on, which prolonged The Depression. |
I guess you don't know that healthy economies spend more year after year. To think a depression is prolonged by increased spending is completely contradictory. Do you even know what GDP measures?
| quote: | | Of course you don't. We've already established the fact that you can not read. |
No, you just don't make any ing sense.
| quote: | | No, people stop spending money when prices are too high. Your logic doesn't make any sense. |
Once again you are wrong. When people are losing their jobs due to deflation, who the is going to buy a car, or a house, or a tv? Especially when they think prices are going to go lower, they will not spend in anticipation of that, and it becomes a vicious circle. Businesses fail.
People stop spending when prices are too high, yes. But the effects of deflation are much MUCH more than simply falling prices.
| quote: | | The private institutions have to get the money somewhere and it is hardly from depositors. Haven't you ever heard of fractional reserve banking? It is how our entire banking system works! Look it up! Fractional Reserving Banking! Holy Hell you are ignorant. |
LOL, so the Fed simply GIVES them money!? GOd damn, you'r a ing idiot.
Fractional reserve banking in the US allows banks to lend 90% of the amount of their deposits. The Fed doesn't give them free cash. WHEN THE FED INCREASES MONEY SUPPLY, THEY DO BY BUYING US TREASURY BONDS. THEY DO NOT GIVE BANKS AND INSTITUTIONALS FREE MONEY.
GOT IT? FFS...:rolleyes:
| quote: | | We agree!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
No, I don't agree with anyone who doesn't know jack about economics. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Fractional reserve banking in the US allows banks to lend 900% of the amount of their deposits. |
sorry, that should be 90%. if the bank has $1 then it may lend 90c. |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
sorry, that should be 90%. if the bank has $1 then it may lend 90c. |
No. If the bank has $1, it can lend out $9. That's how banks create commercial paper. Commercial banks also create money. But that money creation is limited by the amount of their deposits. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
No. If the bank has $1, it can lend out $9. |
why do you argue with me? :p i dont make things up for my own amusement. you're confusing the sum effect of fraction reserve banking ie that $1 can become $9 through progressive lending, however each bank can only lend 90%
look it up if you don't believe me ;) |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
why do you argue with me? :p i dont make things up for my own amusement. you're confusing the sum effect of fraction reserve banking ie that $1 can become $9 through progressive lending, however each bank can only lend 90%
look it up if you don't believe me ;) |
Yea, you'r right. I meant to say, banks lend out 900% of their required reserve. |
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| The17sss |
Well this is fantastic. It took Barney Frank about 3 days to expose Obama's lie about the Government not having a hand in running GM when he made sure a plant in his congressional district slated for shutdown remains open.
| quote: | Congressman Barney Frank released a statement Thursday, announcing that the GM parts distribution center in Norton will be open for at least 14 months.
It was announced a week ago that the Norton plant would be shutting down, putting at least 80 employees out of work, but Congressman Frank spoke with General Motors CEO Fritz Henderson on June 3rd, urging GM to reconsider that action, arguing that the plant was an important part of the local community. General Motors [then] called Congressman Frank Thursday, to inform him that they now plan to keep the Norton plant open for at least 14 months.
”The UAW is very appreciative of Congressman Frank’s assistance,” said Bob Madore, Director of UAW Region 9A. “The workers in Norton now have some time to show how important their plant is to GM’s overall operations. Representative Frank is a congressman who doesn’t just talk the talk for workers - he walks with us and we walk with him”. |
http://www.abc6.com/news/46958782.html
Wow... 80 workers qualifies as a "fundamental corporate decision"? |
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| Krypton |
| What do you expect when the government has a 60% equity stake in the company. That they are simply going to sit back and watch from the sidelines? This isn't surprising at all, and frankly, it's not even that big of a deal. |
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