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GM declares bankruptcy (pg. 20)
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| DOOMBOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
firstly, the government doesn't dictate prices; such prices are achieved within your "competitive" environment. |
But that is the problem! With all of the laws in place, for example, it makes it very difficult to be completely competitive. Look at the very topic now at hand!
| quote: | | yes, there are certain government initiatives that haven't helped the situation, but they are hardly the cause of ballooning costs and massive massive profit margins of the providers of healthcare. |
Sure they are! Look at every single recession or depression that has been caused in our economy! All created by government intervention into the market place and the spreading of our wealth.
| quote: | | capitalism simply does not lend itself well to certain situations; the provision of adequate healthcare is simply one of them. |
Wrong and I've already said why. Not to mention, your current system isn't really helping your claim much!
Your link helps my case. |
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| jonSun |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nostalgic
Two x-rays I got for both my ankle and neck was a whopping 30 dollars. Flat broke I tell ya. |
that was the deductable
unless you know the doc personally & got a hookup |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
I don't believe there are any today because every country has become dependent on their government to take care of them and socialize their medical system. |
Oh, so you'r advocating something that doesn't even exist. Nice.
| quote: | | But there is where you are wrong. The economy is driven by the consumer, not the government. Every time the government steps in and dictates where the money should go and how the economy should be ran, it creates bubbles. Look at every single depression or recession this country has been in. All of them were created by government intervention into the market place. |
I never said the economy was driven by government. I said the government should try to increase the productivity of its economy. That's why there is free education, infrastructure, etc. It's to provide the basis of a productive economy. Health care is probably more important than all of those. As for the, "every recession is caused by the government" comment. Utter nonsense. Not saying government hasn't had some influence at different times and in different contexts. The reason we have recession is...it's a normal aspect of business cycles.
| quote: | | And you lose these rights when you allow a central planner to dictate what is best for you and how/where your money should be spent. |
What? No central planner is determining the treatment people get. It's the doctor who determines that. If you think socialized health care is "central planning", then education, infrastructure, defense, justice, and more are also central planning. How about we just get rid of all government so we can live in an anarchist paradise?
| quote: | | Again, you are wrong. The private sector should be taking care of this. The private sector should be competing for the job to take care of these services with each other to make sure that prices are low and that quality is much higher. This can only happen through competition and not by allowing a monopoly on the system, which gets created by central planning/government intervention. |
The private CAN'T take care of this. Does it occur to you that millions of people cannot afford health care? And there is no "monopoly" of the system, or central planning. Health care is an essential service which the private sector is incapable of providing on a universal basis to everyone. |
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| DOOMBOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Oh, so you'r advocating something that doesn't even exist. Nice. |
I'm advocating something that has been proven through the course of history. The only way goods can be kept affordable to the public and of service that the consumer can depend on AND wants is through a competitive market place. We simply do not have this in our current economy.
| quote: | | I never said the economy was driven by government. I said the government should try to increase the productivity of its economy. |
You can only have one here.
| quote: | | That's why there is free education, infrastructure, etc. |
You do realize that the USA is commonly known as the most unintelligent of all the industrialized nations, right? So much for our education system.
| quote: | | It's to provide the basis of a productive economy. Health care is probably more important than all of those. As for the, "every recession is caused by the government" comment. Utter nonsense. Not saying government hasn't had some influence at different times and in different contexts. The reason we have recession is...it's a normal aspect of business cycles. |
You don't know your history. Read up! :)
| quote: | | What? No central planner is determining the treatment people get. It's the doctor who determines that. If you think socialized health care is "central planning", then education, infrastructure, defense, justice, and more are also central planning. How about we just get rid of all government so we can live in an anarchist paradise? |
You are correct. All of the above is currently being controlled by our governments.
| quote: | | The private CAN'T take care of this. Does it occur to you that millions of people cannot afford health care? |
Does it occur to you why?
| quote: | | And there is no "monopoly" of the system, or central planning. Health care is an essential service which the private sector is incapable of providing on a universal basis to everyone. |
Wrong again. I've already stated my case as to why. You have yet to make a case for your central planner though. :) |
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| Sunsnail |
| I'm all "RAH RAH FREE MARKETS OHHH YEAH" too but after almost losing my health insurance while simultaneously going to the hospital for them to test me for lymphoma, i'm all for universal care. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
Look at every single recession or depression that has been caused in our economy! All created by government intervention into the market place and the spreading of our wealth. |
oh, i see you're not worth my time. i won't bother again, lols. |
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| DOOMBOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sunsnail
I'm all "RAH RAH FREE MARKETS OHHH YEAH" too but after almost losing my health insurance while simultaneously going to the hospital for them to test me for lymphoma, i'm all for universal care. |
I understand your concern but you have to realize why the cost for your care is so high to begin with. The fact of the matter is, medical care is very monopolized right now, which is driving the costs of the service and medicines so high. If there was a lot more competition and capital being used where people want it and need it, you would see the costs of these services and medicines go down.
I simply do not understand why we don't come to terms with this when we can look at countries who are completely socialized with their medical system and can see it is a failed system. |
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| DOOMBOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
oh, i see you're not worth my time. i won't bother again, lols. |
No problem. You haven't made a case for any of your claims and are obviously confused with your history, which you haven't even tried to explain anyway.
Take care! |
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| jonSun |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sunsnail
I'm all "RAH RAH FREE MARKETS OHHH YEAH" too but after almost losing my health insurance while simultaneously going to the hospital for them to test me for lymphoma, i'm all for universal care. |
Thats the problem I have. Insurance companies deny people for coverage they are paying for & there is nothing you can do about it because they have teams of high paying defence to back them up. Not to mention having to pay $30 for an asprin or vicatin when your at the hospital. |
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| Sunsnail |
I want government healthcare. health insurance in this country is too tied in with jobs.
*topic is GM* |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
I'm advocating something that has been proven through the course of history. The only way goods can be kept affordable to the public and of service that the consumer can depend on is through a competitive market place. We simply do not have this in our current economy. |
Yea, my college student self who makes only $8000 a year will be able to pay my medical bills in a medical emergency. Riiiiight...
| quote: | | You can only have one here. |
what
| quote: | | You do realize that the USA is commonly known as the most unintelligent of all the industrialized nations, right? So much for our education system. |
The quality of our system is irrelevant. Every other industrialized country also has free education, so your point is moot.
| quote: | | You don't know your history. Read up! :) |
No, I just don't blame everything on the government. And I also realize that every economy goes through business cycles. It's only economics 101.
| quote: | | You are correct. All of the above is currently being controlled by our governments. |
You seem to be one who believes everything should be privatized. Police, education, justice. No government. You do realize how irrational that is?
| quote: | | Does it occur to you why? |
They don't make enough income...:rolleyes:
| quote: | | Wrong again. I've already stated my case as to why. You have yet to make a case for your central planner though. :) |
For some reason, you believe some people need health care, and others don't. Getting back to reality, EVERYONE NEEDS HEALTH CARE. It is an essential service because everyone needs it. At least I'm not advocating a non-existent system, which would lead to millions being unable to afford health care. Luckily, advanced societies around the world aren't stupid enough to follow what you advocate. And the evidence shows they'r getting by just fine. |
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| DOOMBOT |
Your ignorance is astounding. But I shall settle on agreeing to disagree.
Have a good night! |
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