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Libya Situation (pg. 18)
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
We are comparing Clinton and Obama... not Clinton and Bush. Nice try with the "Yeah Obama's ing up but... HEY LOOK OVER THERE! BUSH!" attempt. |
i think he's right in this instance though. the US had far more prestige (for lack of a better term) during clinton's years beause he wasn't embroiled in 2 seriously unpopular wars. the US could go rescue starving kids in africa these days and still cop a whole lot of for their imperialist agenda. that's not all bush's fault by any stretch but these are certainly different times.
| quote: | Originally posted by lilith
Unlike Rwanda, who didn't have any oil so a million people got killed in about a month... not that a no-fly zone will really do much at this point as I think most of the anti government forces according to the news, are fairly much finished. |
it was 800K in 3 months IIRC. i think your barb is a little simplistic too, as far as oil goes. the US was still reeling from having their dead dragged thru the streets of mogadishu (somalia not being a great oil reserve as far as i know) the year before and this certainly tempered the enthusiasm for "pointless" conflicts in africa at the time. not saying it wasn't a huge failure by the US (and everyone else) but i disagree that this was primarily due to oil (or lack thereof). |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
So we should just ignore the shift in attitude towards the US during the Bush administration and make blind comparisons between Clinton and Obama?
There is a lot of I disagree with Obama about. He handled health care poorly, as did many democrats, he capitulated too much and gave into fear mongering and stupidity by the right. He couldn't commit to closing down Gitmo and moving the trials to the US, where they should have been held (and the people with nothing substantial against them returned to their home countries). He ing ed up NASA, now we have to rely on the Russians to get to the space station that we mostly built and there is no alternatives in sight. He seems to keep backing clean coal, which is just a ing sham, there is no such thing as clean coal. He capitulated on the tax cuts for the wealthy (though he really had no other choice). |
There is no "might"... we will have to rely on the Russians to get into space, and they just jacked the costs up on us too. And Obama is not backing any type of coal; that's just more of his nonsense words. He just shut down some coal operations in WV and KY, and famously said that coal plants can continue to do their thing, but he'll make the cost of operating so high that they'll go bankrupt. He didn't capitulate on tax cuts for the wealthy... there were no tax cuts, Jesus Christ. He agreed to not raise income taxes for 2 years, keeping the current rates where they have been for 7 years. The Left loves to push this horse. And you think his mistake on Healthcare is that he didn't push hard enough for what, single payer immediately? He's on the record saying his system will lead to single payer... it's just you impatient lefties who demand it all right now. The whole thing is a cluster anyway, whichever way you slice it.
| quote: | | Also, you think Iraq wasn't a mistake? :nervous: :stongue: |
Why don't you ask Joe Biden who is claiming Iraq's current state as a lone democratic middle east country (other than Israel) is a major triumph (of Obama's presidency he said, laughably).
As for me? Definitely some major mistakes- a lot of things I wish we did differently. But I seriously believe we won't know for another 10 years if it was really worth it, as things play out on the world stage in that region and how our relationship develops long term. |
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| Moongoose |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Could it have been run through the UN sooner, probably, but thats not the point anymore, its done, now lets hope our boys (and girls, they can fly combat missions too), and the boys and girls of our allies can get something accomplished over there. Unlike the last two countries we started fights with, Libya has a pretty modern air defense system, it could be a tough fight. |
Especially since all those shiny new F-22s you got are a bit iffy when it comes to flying in the rain :D Then again its Libya, so rain shoudnt be that much of an issue. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Why don't you ask Joe Biden who is claiming Iraq's current state as a lone democratic middle east country (other than Israel) is a major triumph (of Obama's presidency he said, laughably). |
The Bide abides. |
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| The17sss |
yep.... shelling what's left of them. |
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| Jackson |
BBC Live Feed:
| quote: | 2206: Reuters also says doctors in the city of Misrata are reporting that at least 38 people have been killed today in attacks by Gaddafi forces.
2157: Reuters quotes an unnamed US national security official who says Gaddafi's forces are continuing to make "purposeful" movements toward Benghazi.
2154: US ambassador to the UN Susan Rice tells CNN that by continuing to threaten Benghazi, Gaddafi is violating the UN Security Council resolution. He will face "swift and sure consequences including military action" if he continues to do so, she says. |
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| colin traveller |
Why should we even bother with Libya when there is violence towards protestors in Yemen and bahrani .. you don't see western leaders talk of wanting action against them ..
Why because they like to pick and choose afterall Oil contracts are at stake and the US will not move an inch against the Bahrani regime because they DO NOT WANT TO LOSE THEIR STRATEGICALLY IMPORTANT GULF NAVAL BASE ..
And the other US ARSE LICKER the Saudi's are provding the Bahrani regime with forces to quell the protestors by any means ..
Yet what happens when the tibetians protest for independance and the chinese use brute force against them will the west act nope they would rather do business with them ..
look what happend in Burma the Goverment brutally crackdown there .. again the UN sat back and watch typical cowards and there is a human rights activist still under house arrest ..
And thee most Ironic thing of all when those protests started to spread .. you know what the Israeli's did asked America for 10billion in Military Aid ..
What kind of message does that send ???? |
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| Vivid Boy |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by colin traveller
Why should we even bother with Libya when there is violence towards protestors in Yemen and bahrani .. you don't see western leaders talk of wanting action against them ..
Why because they like to pick and choose afterall Oil contracts are at stake and the US will not move an inch against the Bahrani regime because they DO NOT WANT TO LOSE THEIR STRATEGICALLY IMPORTANT GULF NAVAL BASE ..
And the other US ARSE LICKER the Saudi's are provding the Bahrani regime with forces to quell the protestors by any means ..
Yet what happens when the tibetians protest for independance and the chinese use brute force against them will the west act nope they would rather do business with them ..
look what happend in Burma the Goverment brutally crackdown there .. again the UN sat back and watch typical cowards and there is a human rights activist still under house arrest ..
And thee most Ironic thing of all when those protests started to spread .. you know what the Israeli's did asked America for 10billion in Military Aid ..
What kind of message does that send ???? |
+1000000
I've been asking the same questions ever since this whole so called "no fly zone" started yesterday. This is big joke and I don’t buy it. The Libyan situation is very similar to what we happened to Saddam back in the 90’s. It all starts with the no fly zone; give it a few years and then you’ll have the full ground invasion. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by colin traveller
Why should we even bother with Libya when there is violence towards protestors in Yemen and bahrani .. you don't see western leaders talk of wanting action against them ..
Why because they like to pick and choose afterall Oil contracts are at stake and the US will not move an inch against the Bahrani regime because they DO NOT WANT TO LOSE THEIR STRATEGICALLY IMPORTANT GULF NAVAL BASE .. |
so what? you cant fix all the world's problems. and its the perogative of nations to choose strategic interests over foreign people, all countries do it all the time.
| quote: | Originally posted by colin traveller
Yet what happens when the tibetians protest for independance and the chinese use brute force against them will the west act nope they would rather do business with them .. |
so, you'd like to invade china?
trade is the fulcrum that will lead to the eventual democratisation of china. the situation in tibet sucks but nothing is going to change it, so i'll have my cheap goods in lieu of idealistic pointless efforts thanks very much. |
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| colin traveller |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
so what? you cant fix all the world's problems. and its the perogative of nations to choose strategic interests over foreign people, all countries do it all the time.
so, you'd like to invade china?
trade is the fulcrum that will lead to the eventual democratisation of china. the situation in tibet sucks but nothing is going to change it, so i'll have my cheap goods in lieu of idealistic pointless efforts thanks very much. |
We might not be able to fix all the worlds problems but why in the hell should we have to do what other African nations military can do ??
Why should the Arab league back the call for a NFZ yet do we see any such African state actually take up this without the need for any Western nation to even get invovled in .. NOPE
why ... politics is a game of 2 faces |
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