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Jihad on Denmark - freedom of expression rears its ugly head once again... (pg. 18)
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| Ian |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
I just wonder if all those s protesting down in London and elsewhere rioted when their own press publish cartoons portraying all Israelis or all Jews as animals/Nazis/etc?
Doubt it |
perfectly put. What really pisses me off, is people are calling for boycotts of danish products, of danish people, ordinary danish people have had nothing to do with this, yet their whole country are having problems for something from months ago, because other countries (none of whom have been attacked - france for example) published these & brought everything back up. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by djdarren
How can you draw Mohammed the Prophet in such idea? |
Pen and paper, pretty simple concept really
| quote: | | What if we draw Jesus "as a symbol of US" in a cartoon? That is absolutely the same thing. |
It is, isn't it? And you'd probly get some whackos again complaining (as you do in some Christian countries) But those cartoons you describe happen and dont cause this kind of commotion!
| quote: | | They are just trying to find reasons to attack Muslims.They want to conquer our land to use all our products. But one thing they don't know that we are very powerful. If they keep doing this... well.. |
Who is "they" exactly? Every Danish person?!?! Every America?! Every Christian? Every Westerner? For someone who is complaining that a people (Muslims) are getting tarred with the same brush as a few you do a good job making yourself look like a plonker! However, I assume you mean the American elite? (Plus their allied elites in the world) Well, yes, they want you're resources, completely true.
When you talk of your threats against the West you use "we" to describe ALL Muslims who you earlier said we're not part of that ignorant minority who you even said were not Muslims!! So these Islamists who threaten the West are not Muslims but ignorant people (I agree completely btw) but then you make the same threat against the West as they do and infere that all Muslims would be behind this? Hmmmmm
I think you need to stick to your distinctions between Muslims and Islamists (as you call on others to do) I dont think all Muslims are like how that cartoon suggested - nothing of the sort! Its a small minority, a new ideology that has become popular because the previous ideologies failed to help that region/people, thats all.
And you dont help your arguments by saying like 'if they carry on like that (either American power in the region or simply, as the thread is about, petty insults against the religion) then...' suggesting the Muslims population will rise up against them then you further dont help your argument!!! |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ian
perfectly put. What really pisses me off, is people are calling for boycotts of danish products, of danish people, ordinary danish people have had nothing to do with this, yet their whole country are having problems for something from months ago, because other countries (none of whom have been attacked - france for example) published these & brought everything back up. |
Well Denmark's whole export industry consists of bacon so I don't think they have much to worry about! Unless Iranians are hooked on Lego?! |
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| djdarren |
and you are wrong..in your religion it is not a sin to draw a picture(normal) of Jesus, you have lots figures in your churches. But in Islam it is forbidden to draw anything about Mohammed. And these cartoonist draw him, and not normally but with bombs and weapons. So it is normal that you've had protests all over your country.
and also you dont know anything about muslims if you say they are not modern. Did you ever come tu Istanbul? Or did you ever go to Dubia? or didyou ever go to Malaysia? I don't think so. We are goddam modern but you dont know anything bout us. You just see Iraq in televisions and you think that we are not modern. |
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| djdarren |
| by the way you must watch the new film called "Valley of the Wolves Iraq".. |
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| Ian |
| quote: | Originally posted by djdarren
and you are wrong..in your religion it is not a sin to draw a picture(normal) of Jesus, you have lots figures in your churches. But in Islam it is forbidden to draw anything about Mohammed. And these cartoonist draw him, and not normally but with bombs and weapons. So it is normal that you've had protests all over your country.
and also you dont know anything about muslims if you say they are not modern. Did you ever come tu Istanbul? Or did you ever go to Dubia? or didyou ever go to Malaysia? I don't think so. We are goddam modern but you dont know anything bout us. You just see Iraq in televisions and you think that we are not modern. |
I've seen turkey, on tv. I've seen how women are repressed, and how english football fans have been stabbed to death. I've seen the racist chanting atfootball games against black players. That's not very modern at all imo. |
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| Ian |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
Well Denmark's whole export industry consists of bacon so I don't think they have much to worry about! Unless Iranians are hooked on Lego?! |
my diet is 50% danish meats & 30% echo of silence :D I also once ate a lego man so I think I have to support them ;) |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by djdarren
and you are wrong..in your religion it is not a sin to draw a picture(normal) of Jesus, you have lots figures in your churches. But in Islam it is forbidden to draw anything about Mohammed. And these cartoonist draw him, and not normally but with bombs and weapons. So it is normal that you've had protests all over your country.
and also you dont know anything about muslims if you say they are not modern. Did you ever come tu Istanbul? Or did you ever go to Dubia? or didyou ever go to Malaysia? I don't think so. We are goddam modern but you dont know anything bout us. You just see Iraq in televisions and you think that we are not modern. |
My religion?! What religion would that be exactly?!
And I know plenty about Muslims thank you (altho that comment was not directed towards me I know) Muslims in the UK are for the main part 'modern' which simply means not-as-religious. Its a bit of a daft comment when people say a religion (they usually mean Christianity) is 'modern' because what they actually mean is people have given up their religious beliefs (they are not strict or whatever) so they are not modern, they are in fact not religious! |
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by djdarren
lol..this is really funny. |
The only thing that's funny here, is you making a fool out of yourself by posting incoherent ramblings in the PDD without reading the thread or (seemingly) making any effort whatsoever to check your facts first.
| quote: | Originally posted by djdarren
And let's talk about that cartoons. Hmm.. Let's see.. How can you make all Muslims responsible for these atrocities? How can you draw Mohammed the Prophet in such idea? What if we draw Jesus "as a symbol of US" in a cartoon? That is absolutely the same thing. |
Refering to my earlier comment about you having failed to check into the matters before posting, let me point your attention to the following snippet from Wikipedia:
| quote: | Jesus and other religious figures are often portrayed in Denmark in ways that many other societies would consider illegal blasphemy. In 1984 the artist Jens Jørgen Thorsen was commissioned by a local art club to paint the wall of a railway station. The work displayed a naked Jesus with an erect penis. In 1992 Thorsen directed the film Jesus vender tilbage which showed Jesus as sexually active and involved with a terrorist group.
While Thorsen’s work provoked much public debate, he was not charged with any legal offence. |
Notice the word "debate" rather than "riots". And, no, we do not have a law that outlaws Holocaust denial neither. Furthermore, the cartoons did not equate all muslims with terrorists - if you'd seen them you would know.
Btw. I liked how you managed to write this:
| quote: | Originally posted by djdarren
You said that there are lots of muslims who want a religious war. Thats compeletly wrong. All that bombings and stuff is not about religion or muslims. You must understand that no muslim can do such a thing. |
and then this:
| quote: | Originally posted by djdarren
But one thing they don't know that we are very powerful. If they keep doing this... well.. |
Which is it? As you're obviously speaking on behalf of all Muslims, you might as well tell us if we should fear Muslims or not?
| quote: | Originally posted by Ian
their whole country are having problems for something from months ago, because other countries (none of whom have been attacked - france for example) published these & brought everything back up. |
Actually the boycott started before the foreign papers picked up on the story. The real reason for the sudden eruption of lunacy is unknown. Some think it was a divertion stunt to lead Arabs' attention away from a tragedy connected to some religious event, others that it's orchestrated by a trans-border alliance of Islamists, spearheaded by Iran.
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Today one croatian magazine published those pictures too. I'm glad to say that we too took part in protecting the freedom of the press, something that was really difficult to comprehend some 10 years ago. |
A paper in Australia and a larger US paper has also just printed some cartoons. A list of freedom of speech fighting papers can be found at wikipedia.
Yesterday, in an interview with Jyllands-posten, the US deputy foreign secretary came out with a new US stance on the matter. He pledged to support Denmark in this matter unconditionally. The US embassador to Denmark furthermore added that the previous statements by the US foreign secretary's spokesman were in error, and did not reflect the policies of the US government. Supposedly the same kinds of new pipings was given by Blair.
Chirac also pledged support to freedom of speech, but this was not as surprising as he was just backing up what had previously been said by his interior minister.
Anyway, I haven't been able to find any confirmations of these new signals from the UK and US, and since an informal interview in a Danish paper is rather non-comitting, I remain a skeptic.
EDIT: And here the confirmation seems to be:
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20060207&fname=danielfried&sid=2
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20060207&fname=danielfried&sid=1
"Funny" that an Indian news source would be the first to report on this. |
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| George Smiley |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ian
I've seen turkey, on tv. I've seen how women are repressed, and how english football fans have been stabbed to death. I've seen the racist chanting atfootball games against black players. That's not very modern at all imo. |
To be fair I'd say those were cultural problems not religious problems (all of which happen in a great deal of European countries) |
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| djdarren |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ian
I've seen turkey, on tv. I've seen how women are repressed, and how english football fans have been stabbed to death. I've seen the racist chanting atfootball games against black players. That's not very modern at all imo. |
lol so you are so modern that nobody is getting killed in your country? lol.. and english footbal fans was so modern that they put our national flag into their boxers and walk like that. english people was so modern that they were banned from europen competitions once. english people were so modern that their goddamn police kill an unarmed and innocent man in metro station. americans are so mdoern that they keep killing innocent people in Iraq.
Ok then it is modern right? |
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| djdarren |
| quote: | Originally posted by George Smiley
My religion?! What religion would that be exactly?!
And I know plenty about Muslims thank you (altho that comment was not directed towards me I know) Muslims in the UK are for the main part 'modern' which simply means not-as-religious. Its a bit of a daft comment when people say a religion (they usually mean Christianity) is 'modern' because what they actually mean is people have given up their religious beliefs (they are not strict or whatever) so they are not modern, they are in fact not religious! |
so what is this mean? you can not be modern if you are religious? |
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