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Jihad on Denmark - freedom of expression rears its ugly head once again... (pg. 23)
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| djdarren |
| keep doing that then..maybe you need some anger management |
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| emc^2 |
once again, the age old expression stands the test of time: "The pen is mightier than a sword"*
*when taken to extreme by extremists |
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| ::TranceVanDyk:: |
i will be using this thread for a research paper ive got to do.
Islam: Religion of peace or violence? |
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| emc^2 |
Here's some more fuel for your paper:
| quote: | Flemming Rose, the culture editor of Jyllands-Posten, the Danish newspaper that published the cartoons, insisted in an interview last week that his interest in publishing them lay solely in asserting the right to free speech over religious taboos.
"When Muslims say you are not showing respect, I would say: you are not asking for my respect, you are asking for my submission," he said.
That apprehension was echoed in an editorial in the Dutch newspaper NRC Handelsblad that said: "In America, few people fear that they will have to live according to the norms of Islam. In European countries, with a large or growing Muslim minority, there is a real fear that behind the demand for respect hides another agenda: the threat that everyone must adjust to the rules of Islam."
In response, some fear that it is European values and freedoms that are under direct threat.
In 2000, Islamic pressure was held responsible in the Netherlands and Belgium for the cancellation of an opera about Aisha, the youngest wife of Muhammad. In 2005, a Moroccan-Dutch painter, Rachid Ben Ali, went into hiding after death threats related to an exhibit showing "hate-imams" spitting bombs. And in 2004 the filmmaker Theo van Gogh was killed for committing what his confessed killer called blasphemy in a film called "Submission" about violence against Muslim women.
In the Netherlands, where the population of 16 million includes a million Muslims, some people have taken to wondering whether their secular values can guarantee social peace.
In earlier periods of European history, NRC Handelsblad said,
"a small religious dispute could lead to large- or small-scale wars. The Muslim immigration has thrown Europe back to the religious conflicts of the past."
In Britain, some analysts argue that the government of Tony Blair has shown itself ready to promote self-censorship when dealing with Islamic extremism in the interests of averting further terrorist attacks.
"Islam is protected by an invisible blasphemy law," said Jasper Gerard, a columnist in The Sunday Times of London. "It is called fear."
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http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/02/07/news/europe.php# |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by djdarren
but we shouldn't fall into this trap. we should stick together.
people who burns embassies are couple of idiots, they don't what is Islam. They are ing idiot. Because if they did understand Quran and Islam and they couldn't do such things. They are couple of puppets. |
First real intelligent thing you've said this thread.
| quote: | Originally posted by paranoik0
And foreigners do not have any authority to demand changes in the danish laws unless it violates human rights, which it doesn't. |
There is no real law that says countries must respect human rights. (ICC don't count, because not all countries agree to let it have jurisdiction over it) |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
its good to see we have 12 year olds in control of newspapers in some countries.
| quote: |
CNN) -- An Iranian newspaper says it is going to hold a competition for cartoons on the Holocaust to test whether the West will apply the same principles of freedom of expression to the Nazi genocide against Jews as it did to the caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed, The Associated Press reports.
The newspaper, called Hamshahri, said the contest would be launched on February 13 and would be co-convened by itself and the House of Caricatures, a Tehran exhibition center for cartoons.
The competition is in response to the publication, mainly in European newspapers, of cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed, something which is forbidden under Muslim belief.
Both the paper and the cartoon center are owned by the Tehran Municipality, which is dominated by allies of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who is well known for his opposition to Israel, AP reports.
Last year Ahmadinejad provoked outcries when he said on separate occasions that Israel should be \"wiped out\" and the Holocaust was a \"myth.\"
Hamshahri invited foreign cartoonists to enter the competition and said it wanted to see how open the West was to caricatures of the Holocaust.
\"Does the West extend freedom of expression to the crimes committed by the United States and Israel, or an event such as the Holocaust? Or is its freedom only for insulting religious sanctities?\" Hamshahri wrote, referring to the Prophet Mohammed cartoons, in a short article on its back page.
The Iranian newspaper's plans come as violence sparked by the cartoons shows little sign of abating, with Afghan police killing four protesters on Tuesday.
Tuesday's protests -- from Asia to the Middle East, Africa and Europe -- came as political leaders urged restraint and struggled to contain the backlash, some of which has turned from peaceful to volatile and deadly.
In Iran, which is locked in a nuclear stand-off with the West and has cut trade ties with Denmark where the cartoons were first published, crowds pelted the Danish Embassy in Tehran with petrol bombs and stones for a second day.
Also in Tehran, protesters threw Molotov cocktails at the Norwegian Embassy, breaking several windows, a witness told CNN.
Ole Kristian Holthe, the Norwegian ambassador to Iran, said he had gotten word that about 100 demonstrators had gathered in front of the embassy, as were 100 police officers.
\"At least one petrol bomb was thrown against the embassy,\" he told CNN in a phone interview from Tehran.
The embassy was closed Tuesday due to the protests all over the Middle East, a spokeswoman for the Norwegian foreign ministry said, and all embassy personnel are safe.
Meanwhile, the United Nations evacuated staff and NATO peacekeepers rushed reinforcements to a northwest Afghan town after deadly fighting erupted during a protest against the cartoons, The Associated Press reported.
Denmark's prime minister on Tuesday described the protests as a global crisis and called for calm.
\"We are now facing a growing global crisis,\" Anders Fogh Rasmussen said at a news conference. \"Now it has become an international political matter,\" he said. \"I urge calm and steadiness.
\"Denmark and the Danish people are not enemies of Islam or any other religion. We believe in freedom of expression, we believe in freedom of religion and we respect all religions,\" he said.
\"We believe in dialogue between cultures and we oppose violence and hatred and we believe in equal rights for everyone.\"
Nordic countries are bearing the brunt of the protests in Afghanistan and the Middle East.
In Washington, U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the United States was offering help to many Danish embassies.
\"One thing that we are going to do is go out to our embassies around the globe and ask them to offer any assistance to the Danish government, the Danish embassies, representatives in countries where they have representation, see if they need any assistance,\" he said.
Tuesday's rioting in the remote town of Maymana was one of about a half-dozen flashpoints that erupted across Afghanistan. Reuters said four people were killed.
Four protesters were killed on Monday and 17 others injured in protests near Bagram Airbase, a U.S. base north of Kabul, and separately in the Afghan city of Mihtarlam, according to AP. (Watch as police and rioters clash -- 2:25)
Also Monday, a stampede during a protest in the east African nation of Somalia killed a teenager, AP reported. (Full story)
Further protests erupted Tuesday in Egypt, Yemen, Djibouti, Gaza and Azerbaijan, while Croatia became the latest country where a newspaper printed the cartoons.
At least 10,000 people marched in the Bangladeshi capital and tens of thousands turned out in Niger's capital Niamey in sub-Saharan Africa to vent their anger about the cartoons.
On Tuesday, in the northern Pakistani city of Peshawar, more than 6,000 people demonstrated, chanting slogans against European nations and demanding justice, police said.
The protest was led by the Chief Minister of North West Frontier Province, Mohammad Akram Khan Durani, and several other provincial ministers.
\"Hang the man who insulted the prophet,\" some Pakistani protesters shouted.
Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz has issued a statement condemning the publication of the cartoons and expressing concern about controversy.
In Srinagar in Indian-controlled Kashmir, police fired tear gas Tuesday to disperse hundreds of Shiite Muslim protesters. At least six protesters and two police officers were injured, police told AP.
In the southern Philippines, hundreds of Muslims burned a Danish flag.
And in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation, rallies were held in at least four cities Tuesday. Rock-throwing demonstrators have attacked Denmark's diplomatic missions in the sprawling country on a near daily basis.
\"The Foreign Ministry recommends that Danes already in Indonesia leave and that those interested in coming postpone their plans,\" said Niels Erik Anderson, Denmark's ambassador to Indonesia.
Malaysia's prime minister slammed the foreign media and a local daily on Tuesday for running the drawings, one of which shows Mohammed wearing a turban shaped as a bomb.
Iran said it was cutting off all trade with Denmark, and Tehran withdrew its ambassador to Denmark in response. (Full story)
Demonstrators in the Iranian capital protested outside the Danish Consulate and the Austrian Embassy, tossing Molotov cocktails at the buildings. Austria currently serves as president of the European Union. (Full story)
On Tuesday, Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said the West's publication of the cartoons was an Israeli conspiracy motivated by anger over Hamas' win in the Palestinian elections, AP reported.
Arrest warrants
The cartoons of Mohammed first appeared in Danish paper Jyllands-Posten in September. The paper said it had asked cartoonists to draw the pictures because the media was censoring itself over Muslim issues.
Islam forbids depictions of Mohammed and many Muslims were furious at the drawings, one of which shows the religious figure wearing a turban shaped like a bomb.
Some other European papers later published some of the cartoons, as a way of covering the controversy and also, some papers said, as a matter of freedom of expression.
Two New Zealand newspapers also reprinted the cartoons, sparking protests in that country and drawing condemnation from the government.
In Paris, France Soir -- a newspaper that published the cartoons -- was evacuated for nearly three hours Monday after receiving a bomb threat.
Two small weekly Jordanian newspapers also reprinted the cartoons and, according to Jordan's Petra News Agency, arrest warrants were issued for the editors-in-chief.
The Danish paper issued an apology in late January after weeks of quieter expressions of outrage and diplomatic efforts to avoid the widespread violence.
The Danish government says it does not control what is in the country's newspapers and that courts will determine whether the newspaper that originally published the cartoons is guilty of blasphemy.
The government has also expressed apologies for the offending drawings. (Danes feel threatened)
CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons out of respect for Islam.
-- CNN Producer Syed Mohsin Naqvi and Journalist Tom Coghlan contributed to this report |
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| InterMilan31 |
| quote: | Originally posted by djdarren
keep doing that then..maybe you need some anger management |
this coming from a turk whos footballers cant control themselves....also freedom of speech to me means this:
A person can say anything they want if the person or persons they are speaking to dont agree they dont have to listen. In other words if some black guy came up to me and said I hate white people and (ex) roman catholics and jesus can suck my dick i would say probably nothing and leave...if you dont agree with something or if someone said something stupidly than walk away because he isnt mature enough....obviously these people have never heard of anything like this. |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by djdarren
by the way about this freedom of speech.im totally supporting it but there should be strict borders. freedom of speech must not insult human beings.
also ironic thing is that France supported freedom of speech. It is ironic because in France it is a crime to say "there is no armenian genocide".
so where is the freedom of speech FRANCE? HUH? keep supporting then. |
Stick around in this forum. You'll see that there are some of us who stand by the freedom of speech no matter how uncomfortable it makes them feel. I've fought against Germany's anti-holocaust laws, I've fought against Britain's religious hatred laws. IMO this issue plays a part in justifying the position I've always held. Sound policy should withstand the threat of extremism. |
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| emc^2 |
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/merc...ld/13815044.htm
| quote: | Protests express frustration with the West, cleric saysBy Matthew SchofieldKnight Ridder NewspapersCOPENHAGEN, Denmark - The Muslim cleric blamed for instigating protests over a dozen cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad said Tuesday that he never intended for rioters to attack Danish embassies and businesses in the Middle East and that he was crying for Denmark.
But Ahmed Abu-Laban, who leads a mosque in Copenhagen's Muslim neighborhood, also said Danish officials brought the crisis on themselves by not responding to initial protests and that he didn't feel responsible for the way the dispute had developed.
"People credit me with far more power than I have," Abu-Laban said. "The people rioting are not rioting in my name. They've never heard of me. They are furious because of the insult to Muhammad."
The cartoons, which were first published in Denmark in September, have led to angry demonstrations in the Middle East and Asia and a commercial boycott of Danish products in several Middle Eastern countries. The demonstrators say the cartoons violate Muslim prohibitions against creating images of Muhammad.
Last weekend, protesters set fire to the Danish embassies in Damascus, Syria, and Beirut, Lebanon. Demonstrations continued Tuesday in Afghanistan, where U.N. peacekeepers killed five protesters, and Iran, where demonstrators stormed the Danish embassy in Tehran.
President Bush called Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen on Tuesday "to express support and solidarity with Denmark," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said. The protests haven't targeted the United States. Last Friday, the White House said the cartoons shouldn't have been published.
McClellan said Bush and Rasmussen "reiterated the importance of tolerance and respect for religions of all faith, and freedom of press."
In a wide-ranging two-hour interview with Knight Ridder, Abu-Laban acknowledged that he began contacting Muslims in the Middle East late last year in an effort to build pressure on the Danish government to condemn the cartoons.
"European politicians want Muslim votes," he said. "We were running a campaign, trying to create pressure."
Abu-Laban said he'd helped organize visits to Egypt and Lebanon, where he and other Muslims from Denmark displayed the cartoons. He said the visits were aimed at garnering political support, not inciting riots.
"We did not go to incite people," he said. "We did not go to the cafes to whip up support. We targeted rectors, scholars, mufti (experts in Islamic law), learned men of Islam who could help us to make heard our point in a place where officials have little time for religion."
When the protests turned violent, he said, he felt sympathy for Denmark.
"I cry for Denmark. I cry for the Danish people," he said.
But he was unrepentant, and blamed the West's view of Islam as the primary cause of the violence.
"This protest is not about the cartoons, offensive as they are," he said. "The cartoons are merely the final drop that caused the cup to overflow. The Muslim faith has been under attack for years. There has been intense psychological pressure on Muslims. We have heard Western politicians relate our faith to terrorism, over and over again, and it is too much. This was the response."
Many here accuse Abu-Laban of extremism and describe the mosque he leads, the Danish Islamic Community, as a center of radical Islam.
But Abu-Laban, whose mosque complex is in an old factory in the largely Muslim Noerrbro neighborhood, rejected those labels. He called suggestions that he supports Osama bin Laden insulting and said those who linked him to al-Qaida were looking for easy answers to difficult problems between Muslims and Europeans.
"Islam does not spread by the sword," he said. "There is no al-Qaida connection here. We are Danish, and we are Muslim."
Abu-Laban conducted the interview in fluent English while sitting in the mosque's library. He said he was born in Cairo, Egypt, but had lived in Denmark for years.
He said he first became involved in the dispute even before the cartoons appeared in the influential Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten last September because he'd heard that the editors were seeking depictions of Muhammad.
Abu-Laban said he went to the paper's editors and warned them not to publish depictions of Muhammad. "Do not make fun of the Prophet," he said he told them. "Choose anyone else from the Muslim world. We can understand anyone else. Muhammad we cannot accept."
When the paper published the drawings, ranging from straightforward to joking - one shows Muhammad standing in clouds, calling out, "Stop, stop, we ran out of virgins" - Abu Laban asked for an apology. When none was forthcoming, he had 10 ambassadors from Islamic countries ask Rasmussen to get involved. In November, Abu-Laban began his tour of the Middle East with a 40-page dossier on what he calls the West's "Islamaphobia."
That led to the protests.
On Jan. 30, Carsten Juste, Jyllands-Posten's editor in chief, apologized for any offense the cartoons had given, though he defended the paper's right to print them. Tuesday, he declined to comment on Abu-Laban's statements. His office said he no longer was making media statements on the subject.
Abu-Laban predicted that the controversy won't be a permanent stumbling block to relations between Danes and Muslims, which he described as being "like a large lake."
"The surface shows many waves, but underneath life is calm," he said. "I believe with dialogue we can calm the surface as well."
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| Purple |
| quote: | Originally posted by djdarren
we did the same thing but Rasmussen said that they can not remove the cartoons because that it is against freedom |
You see their is a difference here, in our case these were privately own companies who were exploiting the pics of gods and godesses to increase their sale of the product.
But in this case, the world see the news paper as as a country's representitive of 'freedom of speech'. Even though they too are priniting to stand out from competition and increase sales.
Also companies can remove the pic from its future products, but a newspaper cannot go back in time and delete that image from the print.
The paper apologised, the country apologised. But I dont know when they apologised (I think the decent apologisation came too late), and once after they apologised why did countries like France and other EU countries had to reprint it? |
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| Fir3start3r |
Here's one dumbass trying to play both sides of the coin... :mad:
| quote: |
Gaza shopkeeper stocks up on Danish flags to burn
06 Feb 2006 16:58:04 GMT
Source: Reuters
By Nidal al-Mughrabi
GAZA, Feb 6 (Reuters) - When entrepreneur Ahmed Abu Dayya first heard that Danish caricatures of the Prophet Mohammad were being reprinted across Europe, he knew exactly what his customers in Gaza would want: flags to burn.
Abu Dayya ordered 100 hard-to-find Danish and Norwegian flags for his Gaza City shop and has been doing a swift trade.
"I do not take political stands. It is all business," he said in an interview. "But this time I was offended by the assault on the Prophet Mohammad."
A wave of anger has swept the Muslim world over the publication of the cartoons, one of which shows the Prophet wearing a turban shaped like a bomb.
First printed in Denmark, the cartoons have appeared in newspapers across Europe, as well as in the United States.
While normally hard to come by in isolated Gaza, Danish and Norwegian flags are now popping up at daily protests, increasingly replacing Israel's Star of David.
It's not clear how many merchants apart from Abu Dayya are offering the flags, but they appear to be readily available. Angry Muslims set the flags ablaze or tear them to pieces.
At a protest on Monday outside European Union offices in Gaza, dozens of Palestinian students chanted: "Down with Denmark. Down with Norway. With our blood and with our souls, we will sacrifice for our Prophet."
In Beirut and Damascus, mobs set Danish and Norwegian embassies on fire.
"I knew there would be a demand for the flags because of the angry reaction of people over the offence to Prophet Mohammad," said Abu Dayya, whose PLO Flag Shop also sells souvenirs and presents.
He sells his Danish and Norwegian flags for $11 a piece -- a price he acknowledged might be dampening sales. Many protesters prefer to save money and make the flags themselves from scraps of fabric, he said.
Abu Dayya sources some of his flags from suppliers in Taiwan, but he buys Israeli flags from a merchant in Israel, even though he sells them to be burnt at anti-Israeli rallies.
Flag-making has been a growth business for Abu Dayya for years, thanks to orders by Palestinian militant groups for national flags and banners bearing the symbols of armed factions.
Last year, he said the Palestinian Authority ordered 60,000 flags ahead of Israel's withdrawal from Gaza. Workers at one factory stitched some 3,000 pennants a day.
While the flag merchant said the Danish cartoons upset him, he urged fellow Gazans not to punish Danish citizens collectively, citing their humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian people.
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>>Source<< |
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| Philby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Here's one dumbass trying to play both sides of the coin... :mad:
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hehe i think thats brilliant :D |
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