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Jihad on Denmark - freedom of expression rears its ugly head once again... (pg. 26)
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| trancaholic |
| quote: | Originally posted by InterMilan31
tranceaholic your a great source for contribution to this thread...helps me out alot as I would like to know whats going on in Denmark as for your points Im completly agreeing on them so far. |
Great. You could do me a great favour by letting me know how everyday people outside of Denmark think about this, too. I can sort of extrapolate from your skirmish with your Muslim friend, and a few other comments in this thread, but can't get a clear picture.
| quote: | Originally posted by shaolin_Z
trancaholic: One thing, when you're arguing about points in an article I posted, please try not to include since it's the article you're quoting and not me ;). Even I got confused for a sec while reading your post. I was like, :conf: "did I say that" and then I realize "oh, it's the article!" :p |
Whoops. Fixed.
In Denmark more and more moderate Muslims get involved in the debate. I read an interview in Jyllands-posten with an Iranian refugee, who said that most Muslims in Denmark were pretty relaxed around ethnic Danes, but scared less by the Islamists. He also said that he himself had been covering himself for too long, leaving it to Khader to face up to the radicals in Denmark. Maybe this entire affair will lead to a solified "western" version of Islam, that can provide an alternative to the extreme version that most western Imams preach. |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
So they burned a couple of croatian flags in Bosnia too. Aside from the danish ones, of course. Although the interesting thing is that the pictures were published in Bosnia about a month before they were published here.
Anyway, there's also an interesting story I've read in the newspapers today. It seems that a 16th century monastery in Split, Croatia had a picture of Muhammed drawn on the wall, alongside with some saints and philosophers. When the turks invaded there, the only monastery that they spared was that one, primarily because of the fact that Muhammed was drawn on the wall.
Oh and another thing, does anyone remember when South Park had that super best friends episode where they were making fun of Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Lao Tse, Joseph Smith, Mohammed, and Sea Man? Hm, yeah, no big protests back then too. And I hate to be a conspiracy theorists, but did anyone notice that Tehran wanted to switch to euro around this time? |
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| NeoPhono |
Well, you know they had to find a way to blame America eventually...
| quote: | Cartoon Protesters Direct Anger at U.S.
Feb 9, 5:19 AM (ET)
By NOOR KHAN
QALAT, Afghanistan (AP) - Police killed four people Wednesday as Afghans enraged over drawings of the Prophet Muhammad marched on a U.S. military base in a volatile southern province, directing their anger not against Europe but America.
The U.S. base was targeted because the United States "is the leader of Europe and the leading infidel in the world," said Sher Mohammed, a 40-year-old farmer who suffered a gunshot wound while taking part in the demonstration in the city of Qalat.
"They are all the enemy of Islam. They are occupiers in our country and must be driven out," Mohammed said.
Wednesday's violence began when hundreds of protesters tried to storm the U.S. base, said Ghulam Nabi Malakhail, a provincial police chief. When warning shots failed to deter them, police shot into the crowd, killing four and wounding 11, he said.
Flying rocks injured eight police and one Afghan soldier, he said.
Two Pakistanis arrested for allegedly firing at police were being questioned to see whether they were linked to al-Qaida, Malakhail said. Some officials accuse al-Qaida of inciting three days of bloody riots across Afghanistan that have left 11 dead.
Protesters also burned three fuel tankers waiting to deliver gasoline to the base, said Malakhail. He said U.S. troops fired warning shots into the air.
U.S. military spokesman Col. James Yonts said the American forces fired flares above the crowd, but he said it was not clear whether they fired their weapons.
Muslims around the world have demonstrated over the images - including one depicting the prophet wearing a turban shaped as a bomb - printed in Western media. Islam is interpreted to forbid any illustrations of the prophet.
In Baghdad, Iraq's top Shiite political leader criticized attacks on foreign embassies by Muslims.
"We value and appreciate peaceful Islamic protests," said Abdul Aziz al-Hakim. "But we are against the idea of attacking embassies and other official sites."
In the West Bank, about 300 Palestinians overpowered a Palestinian police detail and attacked an international observer mission in the city of Hebron.
Sixty members of the mission were inside, said Gunhild Forselv, spokeswoman for the Temporary International Presence in Hebron. A few protesters forced their way in, where unarmed observers waved clubs in an attempt to drive them off. Police reinforcements eventually restored order.
Muslims also demonstrated in Indian-controlled Kashmir, Bangladesh, Bosnia-Herzegovina, and in Turkey.
In Washington, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice accused Iran and Syria of instigating protests in their countries, and President Bush called upon governments to stop the violence and protect the lives of diplomats overseas.
The United States and other countries were looking into whether extremist groups may be inciting protesters to riot, said Yonts, the U.S. spokesman in Afghanistan.
Iranian vice president Isfandiar Rahim Mashaee rejected Rice's assertion that Iran was inflaming Muslim anger over the cartoons. "That is 100 percent a lie," Mashaee said in Jakarta, Indonesia. "It is without attribution."
Zahor Afghan, editor for Erada, Afghanistan's most respected newspaper, said the riots in his country have surprised him.
"No media in Afghanistan has published or broadcast pictures of these cartoons. The radio has been reporting on it, but there are definitely people using this to incite violence against the presence of foreigners in Afghanistan," he said.
Afghans who rioted Wednesday said they heard about the cartoons on the radio but none questioned had seen printed versions.
"The radio is talking about them all the time. Everybody heard about them this way," said 28-year-old shopkeeper Ramatullah, who uses only name.
Wednesday's riot erupted despite an appeal from Afghanistan's top Islamic organization, the Ulama Council, for an end to the violence.
"Islam says it's all right to demonstrate but not to resort to violence. This must stop," senior cleric Mohammed Usman told The Associated Press. "We condemn the cartoons but this does not justify violence. These rioters are defaming the name of Islam."
In France, President Jacques Chirac asked media to avoid offending religious beliefs as another French newspaper reprinted the caricatures. The satirical French weekly Charlie-Hebdo also printed a new drawing under the headline "Muhammad Overwhelmed by the Fundamentalists" that showed the prophet with his head in his hands, remarking, "It's hard to be loved by idiots." |
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| emc^2 |
| quote: | | "Muhammad Overwhelmed by the Fundamentalists" that showed the prophet with his head in his hands, remarking, "It's hard to be loved by idiots." |
lol:stongue:
I hate to say it but I can't see this wave of idiocy subsiding. These ing animals won't stop until they either get their fill of blood - which is millions of dead "infidels" or are massively executed... Make no mistake - it has begun.
This won't just stop or go away... , I hate these ing extremists roaches, I just want to squash them with extreme prejudice.
1 Nuke... just one ing nuke - that's all it will take. Drop it on Iran - a mushroom cloud sends a powerful message. Watch the rest of these primitive beasts shut the up and crawl back to their ing caves. "Just two nukes is all it took" to turn Japan from imperialist country to Toyota-producing best friend to Uncle Sam.
I bet if the same approach is taken with Iran, these cave monkeys will finaly realize that when you with a military superpower, we're not going to throw stones.
Oh, and when they see western military leaving in haste - they should be warry, as the next thing that's comming is the good'ole nuke.
I just can't wait. I want some action, the anticipation is driving me mad!
:thepirate "Nuk 'em all, let satan sort 'em out" |
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| InterMilan31 |
| When you have a rally with 20,00 people all chanting Ill do anything for Mohammad you know we got a problem especially if your in europe....Friday Opening Ceremonies wonder if Las Vegas is taking bets on which day is gonna have an attack |
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| djdarren |
do you really think that muslims will attack europe? i don't think so.
by the way italian minister said that they will start a crusade on Turkey and muslims lol.
did you hear the accident in Rome? There was a metting of all Ford dealers generally from Turkey. There were 8 buses but only 1 of them didn't have any foreigners. There were just Turkish people in that bus. And that bus didn't go with the other 7 buses, instead the bus driver chose his own route and they die. One my friends' father,mother and uncle died in that accident.
everybody say that it is a response from europeans. You know a few days ago a priest killed in eastern part of the Turkey. So there is a concpiracy that this bus accident was a response to the subject.
i don't believe that, actually i don't want to believe that. i just wanted to learn your opinions about this subject. Do you think that a religion war is going to start? |
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| St_Andrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by djdarren
do you really think that muslims will attack europe? i don't think so.
by the way italian minister said that they will start a crusade on Turkey and muslims lol.
did you hear the accident in Rome? There was a metting of all Ford dealers generally from Turkey. There were 8 buses but only 1 of them didn't have any foreigners. There were just Turkish people in that bus. And that bus didn't go with the other 7 buses, instead the bus driver chose his own route and they die. One my friends' father,mother and uncle died in that accident.
everybody say that it is a response from europeans. You know a few days ago a priest killed in eastern part of the Turkey. So there is a concpiracy that this bus accident was a response to the subject.
i don't believe that, actually i don't want to believe that. i just wanted to learn your opinions about this subject. Do you think that a religion war is going to start? |
Just out of curiosity, newspapers in Turkey are seriously publishing this story where they think this might actually have been a revange from the Europeans (a suecide bus driver kills everyone on a bus because they are muslims/turkish)? |
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| emc^2 |
It's hard to argue with idiots that are in a total darkness and love it that way.
I remember from the days of growing up in former Soviet Union - you'd have people still thinking that Stalin was the greatest leader of all. It is hard to understand someone else's thinking from your own point of view. You have to consider that on a certain level - they think you are crazy.
It's like trying to convince "westerner" to eat a dog - most will gag at the thought, yet, in Korea (and some other asian countries) some people eat dogs. It may be revolting to a foreigner but totally ok for local. It all depends on what you grew up with.
Now, take someone who has spent the last 30-60 years in a remote village in Afganistan or somewhere else, in deep and uneducated part of Asia. What you have is someone who cannot think differently.
It reminds me of the Matrix - where Morpheus says something like "we don't usually retreive a person after certain age - their mind just can't handle it." Same here - once you spend better part of your life living in certain specific order, even if someone "liberates" you - it would become impossible for that person to become different.
If your life was spent learning that West is evil and wants to kill you, your family, your friends, take away your land - you would be very hard pressed to accept the "new and friendly west", even if it were so. Obviously, the recent incident does not help with it either and you have to understand that politicians on both sides are the ones reaping all the benefits and pouring oil into fire.
So, until critical point is reached - it wont stop. Nostradamus was predicting 100 year war - well, we're in year 6 of the war so far. Only 94 years to go... |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dopey
Yet when Hitler marched his toy soldiers to the banks of the Rhine, and France called older brother to ask what to do, Churchill did nothing. |
Maybe we should learn our timeline...
May 10, 1940 - Nazis invade France, Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands; Winston Churchill becomes British Prime Minister.
Churchill was called back that same day because he knew exactly what Hilter was years ahead of time and no one listened...
| quote: |
...[H]is attention was drawn to the rise of Adolf Hitler and the dangers of Germany's rearmament. For a time he was a lone voice calling on Britain to strengthen itself to counter the belligerence of Germany. Churchill was a fierce critic of Neville Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler. He was also an outspoken supporter of King Edward VIII during the Abdication Crisis, leading to some speculation that he might be appointed Prime Minister if the King refused to take Baldwin's advice and consequently the government resigned. However, this did not happen, and Churchill found himself politically isolated and bruised for some time after this.
Role as wartime Prime Minister
At the outbreak of the Second World War Churchill was appointed First Lord of the Admiralty. In this job he proved to be one of the highest-profile ministers during the so-called "Phoney War", when the only noticeable action was at sea. Churchill advocated the pre-emptive occupation of the neutral Norwegian iron-ore port of Narvik and the iron mines in Kiruna, Sweden, early in the War. However, Chamberlain and the rest of the War Cabinet disagreed, and the operation was delayed until the German invasion of Norway, which was successful despite British efforts.
In May 1940, directly upon the German invasion of France by a surprising lightning advance through the Low Countries, it became clear that the country had no confidence in Chamberlain's prosecution of the war. Chamberlain resigned, and Churchill was appointed Prime Minister and formed an all-party government. In response to previous criticisms that there had been no clear single minister in charge of the prosecution of the war, he created and took the additional position of Minister of Defence. He immediately put his friend and confidant, the industrialist and newspaper baron Lord Beaverbrook, in charge of aircraft production. It was Beaverbrook's astounding business acumen that allowed Britain to quickly gear up aircraft production and engineering that eventually made the difference in the war...
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Churchill
So don't blame Churchill, blame Chamberlain and the inept government before him...
As we can see, Churchill was quick to respond after being appointed.
| quote: |
I believe if Hamas or Iran march to any border they will be shot at.
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Not sure where you're going with this but if they march in the spirit they've been conducting themselves over the years, I'd shoot too! |
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| daydreamer |
wow,
i think they should just deport all these extremist back to their countries. if they don't like european society, well get the feck out, it's not that hard. i think the eurpoean nations, should stand up for the safety of their citizens. |
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| InterMilan31 |
| quote: | Originally posted by daydreamer
wow,
i think they should just deport all these extremist back to their countries. if they don't like european society, well get the feck out, it's not that hard. i think the eurpoean nations, should stand up for the safety of their citizens. |
they have been trying to I believe not sure the exact details but I know in the Netherlands after the killing of the guy who did the film about the quran they tried to do this and also in Britian but both seem to have stopped the proposals..:whip: I know for one that their are atleast 2 radical islamic clerics in the UK(circa end of 2004) |
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| InterMilan31 |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancaholic
Great. You could do me a great favour by letting me know how everyday people outside of Denmark think about this, too. I can sort of extrapolate from your skirmish with your Muslim friend, and a few other comments in this thread, but can't get a clear picture. |
Well im a different case Ive been living in the US for most of my life but I consider myself european though I didnt socialize much with muslims in pre 2003 I have since so i probably have the same oppinion as you do to some degree. |
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