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Here Is Your Baseball Thread!!! (pg. 28)
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| Highmay |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shamez214
Wah wah wah wah wah wah wah wah wah! You still have Alex Rodriguez, Gary Sheffield, Hideki Matsui, Randy Johnson, Jason Giambi... I think you'll be fine if Mariano blows a few saves against the Red Sox here and there. Such spoiled bitches you guys are. :wtf: :stongue: |
not really dude...cant win without pitching...mo is more valuable than all the names you mentioned... |
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| Highmay |
| quote: | Originally posted by kid nyce
i'd like to see stanton solidify his control and become the john franco for the yanks. I think MO/Gordon combo is completely overrated. When I played baseball I faced pitchers that threw pretty hard, you can tell when a pitcher who throws hard is hittable or not. The MO/Gordon deliver is almost the same relative to release points. Gordon's fastball is flat, usually pitchers are taught to throw with a downward motion. So over hand release points at the same velocity just lower at the knees. Any flat fastball can be hit by anyone.
MO's motiff is gone. He was mr UP and IN, ever since he started dazzling with the cutter he has gone to . In his first 4 seasons with the yanks, he only threw a change up, 2 seam, and 4 seam. The 4 seam was his rising fastball and his 2 seam was his inside pitch. Everything else would be 4 seam away, change up, 4 seam away, change up, 2 seam inside, change up away, 4 seam up and in. Now that he has this so-called cutter he's lost alot of velocity from his pitch and simply doesn't have control. When a pitcher learns a new pitch, he learns to compensate the location for the movement. "I can throw this anywhere as long as it moves/bites" Those pitches usually belong to starters who have an aresnal of pitches. I don't think a closer should have more than 3 pitches.
One successful formula the yankees had was Nelson/Rivera - now we are talking Nelson who will get you through 7th/8th and Rivera to close. Nelson for the obvious reason was affective, and Rivera didn't have to throw anything that cut/moved/bite. He just brought heat.
Now with Gordon/Rivera, both throw heat, both don't throw with movement, it's similar just Gordon is flat and Rivera doesn't have the control he had like before (because of his new pitch selection)
It's like the roles have been reversed, Rivera throwing with movement and Gordon flat as a tire. This combo doesn't work. You work Stanton so his location and control is on point, up his pitch count and let him work the middle relief (ala mendoza) then you bring the heat (rivera) I say Gordon should go, he doesn't attribute anything unique to the Yankee's Pen. He's flat, he throws hard, and lacks control of his strike out pitches. |
well gordon's equalizer is his curveball...that could drop off the ing mezzanine and fall in for a strike...i like gordon, but i liked nelson better...my question is WHERE THE IS KARSAY??!!!
and you really cant hate on mo's cutter...it's gotten him this far, so hating on it now is just unfair... |
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| phuzzyfish12 |
| IMO Rivera is overworked and to much pressure is put on him, he is just expected to win for them EVERY time....he needs a break, if they keep using and abusing him this early in the season he will be worthless at the end of the season when they need him most. I personally feel bad for him, its almost like he can't mess up even once, that would wear on anyone, I think he needs to not play in as many games this early in the season and save him for later. |
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| kid nyce |
| quote: | Originally posted by Highmay
well gordon's equalizer is his curveball...that could drop off the ing mezzanine and fall in for a strike...i like gordon, but i liked nelson better...my question is WHERE THE IS KARSAY??!!!
and you really cant hate on mo's cutter...it's gotten him this far, so hating on it now is just unfair... |
what good is a curveball when they are sitting on his flat fastball. A good curveball is only affective when a pitcher establishes his fastball with location and velocity. Gordon lacks location and the fact that his fastball is flat. he's throwing 4 seamer's over the top on the outsides of the plate where any hitter can extend their arms. If any yankee mid relief/closer establishes heat on the middle-in part of the plate they will dominate (ie: mo pre-cutter) Even Mo has fallen subject to pitching in the outside half of the plate.
Look at Timlin hitting DJ in the head, up and in, Giambi taking 2 in the arm again up and in. The Yankee Relief Pitching just isn't aggressive. They need to learn to back batters up from crowding the plate.
As for hating on mo's cutter, yea it's gotten him this far, but he's been giving up his location and velocity to compensate for that pitch. Earlier in his career, granted he was younger and his arm was fresh, he was popping 96+ easy with location. He no longer goes to his up and in as a strike out pitch if you have noticed. He goes to his cutter to get people out, I think thats the new MO, the MO without control over his pitches cuz batters are use to seeing his heat, then see something with less velocity and committ to it as it beings to cut away from them. Thats why it's a good pitch, but you begin to be studied by batters that it's your strike out pitch. High Heat should be his forte, I say switch up his pitch selection and go straight at every batter with heat. The occassional change up to keep them on their toes. The cutter, not for a closer, middle relief and starters who can throw with their curve and change up should be the ones learning that pitch, not closers. You closer with heat, that's mo's motiff! |
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| Member of X |
Mo never had a changeup as a relief pitcher. They've had many articles on this subject and how he basically gets by with 2 pitches for all these years, fastball and cutter. Many times it has been discussed why Gagne is better now is because he has the wicked changeup and Mo never developed one.
In 1995 when Mo was a rookie, against the Mariners in the divisional playoffs games where he first burst onto the scene, Mo's motto was high fastball, higher fastball, then even a higher fastball out of the strike zone. He later developed his famous cutter. Mo threw harder back then, around 96 mph. Mo hits like 93 mph today.
Yesterday, Gordon wasn't even in the game. Sturtze was blowing them away with some serious heat right before that.
I agree though, there is no single more valuable player on the Yanks then Mo. Yanks would have won it last year if Mo was his same invincible self. 4 blown saves in a row against the defending world champions is quite a cause for concern in my mind. |
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| kid nyce |
| quote: | Originally posted by Member of X
Mo never had a changeup as a relief pitcher. They've had many articles on this subject and how he basically gets by with 2 pitches for all these years, fastball and cutter. Many times it has been discussed why Gagne is better now is because he has the wicked changeup and Mo never developed one.
In 1995 when Mo was a rookie, against the Mariners in the divisional playoffs games where he first burst onto the scene, Mo's motto was high fastball, higher fastball, then even a higher fastball out of the strike zone. He later developed his famous cutter. Mo threw harder back then, around 96 mph. Mo hits like 93 mph today.
Yesterday, Gordon wasn't even in the game. Sturtze was blowing them away with some serious heat right before that.
I agree though, there is no single more valuable player on the Yanks then Mo. Yanks would have won it last year if Mo was his same invincible self. 4 blown saves in a row against the defending world champions is quite a cause for concern in my mind. |
He did throw a change up - 89-91mph vs his 96 high heat. It isn't considered an actual change up since he doesn't wrap 3 fingers across 4 the top 3 seams (4 seam grip) essentially he choked his 4 seam back into the palm of his hand "as if its a 4 seam fastball" putting more of his hand on the ball. i spoke to girardi in 97 in Tampa vs Devil Rays at a baseball tournament i played down there. It was a pitchers clinic with the view from a professional league catcher in terms location and velocity. He confirmed my theory why he was throwing "labeled" fastballs at under 92mph when normally mo hit 96 in both his 4 and 2 seam fastball. If the mechanics are identical where his release point has always remained, the only thing to change a pitch is the grip and amount of pressure on the grip. |
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| Sirocco |
come see "THE OLD METS"
ranada looks like bonds
dunn looks like ing willie mays
and the pitcher looks like ing ty cobb
COME SEE NEW METS OHYEAH
damnit |
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| Shamez214 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Highmay
not really dude...cant win without pitching...mo is more valuable than all the names you mentioned... |
No way. That's crazy if you think that. No reliever is more valuable than a superstar position player. |
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| Shamez214 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sirocco
come see "THE OLD METS"
ranada looks like bonds
dunn looks like ing willie mays
and the pitcher looks like ing ty cobb
COME SEE NEW METS OHYEAH
damnit |
The pitcher looks like a Center Fielder?
And, again, it's EARLY in the season. I expected them to win at least one of these games, but they didn't. I'm not about to jump off a bridge. Which could be because I haven't actually seen them lose yet. Freaking Dolan... |
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| trunks1022 |
now that the item's been made unavailable, how about a brief description for those of us that didn't get a chance to view it before it was removed |
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| Shamez214 |
| Thank the freaking baseball gods. Carlos = Dope. Pedro = Doper. Nice... hopefully that homer sparks them for more than just an inning and a half and lasts into the whole month. |
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