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ASOT vs The Elites - Let's have it out (pg. 12)
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| alieu |
| quote: | Originally posted by Subey
*sigh*, few of you understood my intent.
I'll make an analogy.
Say i'm one of those people who think all Prog is boring crap (plenty of people like that).
How should I express that opinion?
1) Every time I see a post that mentions prog I can jump in there and say "Prog is all boring crap, if you like prog your taste in music sucks"
or
2) Once a month I can "Remind" people that I don't see any merit in the style of EDM called Prog for reasons x, y and z.
or
3) I can avoid comenting on prog completely and direct my input about EDM to those genres that I enjoy.
The thing is that MANY select option 1.
I'm not defending Armin in this thread. What i'm defending is the ability of people to like a style of music that is APPROPRIATE to like on this website without feeling prosecuted.
Here's your homework assignment: read this thread about the last ASOT show http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=216581 that has over 500 posts, and see all the love for trance that is in it.
That much LOVE can't be wrong... |
Again I totally agree with you! This is exactly what had in mind |
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| swisstoni_uk |
lol perhaps i might wage a one man war on anyone that bashes someone pointlessly or mentions cheese (highly annoying term), and insult their own tastes in music and artists with similar remarks
see how you like that ;) |
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| Cobalt |
| quote: | Originally posted by TOR
your point? is it an obligation for someone who's into trance to know the artists you mentioned? as i said, just because they are into a kind of music YOU don't like, doesn't mean they do not have taste. everybody has a taste of their own, and you should respect that. |
I would expect someone who wants to use "taste" as an argument to at least know those artists. They're only some of the biggest, most popular aliases in the history of mainstream trance.
It's one thing to legitimately have preference for one style over another after having heard the alternatives. It's another to be new to the scene and irresponsibly praise Dutch trance without the experience to know any better. Pleading to difference in taste is an easy scapegoat in the latter case, a flimsy and arrogant way to justify being thrilled at trance of middling quality.
| quote: | Originally posted by TOR
so? music is about feelings, not about knowing every genre out there. if melodic trance puts a smile on the face of an ASOT-listener, then there is no need for him to force himself to get into breaks or whatever. |
We're not talking about breaks. That's a hyperbole designed to cover up a failed argument. We're talking about trance. Older trance listners are not going to sit back silently while fresh Armin recruits trumpet poor production that doesn't deserve such attention. It's our genre too.
| quote: | Originally posted by TOR
yet it is. you can't force anyone to enjoy certain tracks and to not enjoy others. enjoying music does not involve thinking, it all happens in your heart. if music was about analyzing tracks, i'd consider The Timelord trash, yet it sends me shivers down the spine. |
When all someone has heard are epic 2003-04 trance sets of the same style, it's difficult to say that they're being "forced" to appreciate other trance productions.
On a side note, I don't think the Timelord is trash; it's one of the few Dutch trance tracks that's actually been of any merit in the last year.
| quote: | | give me the objective criteria that are used to conclude that something is 'good' or 'bad'. and give me specific information on who are the judges that come to that ultimate conclusion. |
He can't, because it's a flawed argument. There are different grounds on which to judge tracks, so there is no "absolute scale," unless you confine yourself to a specific value, e.g. uplifting, intelligent, somber, etc. But differences in overall quality can be made on the grounds of innovation and distinctiveness. As far as artistic evolution of this kind is concerned, Armin's style is utterly stagnant and uncreative.
| quote: | Originally posted by Subey
Put on your imagination cap. Imagine you hate the taste of wine but love the taste of beer. |
Your analogy would apply if we were talking about, say, jungle versus trance. But we're talking about trance. In your terms, this is all about wine. |
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| Subey |
When it comes to matters of taste (i.e. palette) the only people who should discuss it are those who have similar tastes.
I'll use video games as an analogy.
Imagine three people:
Dave: Likes RTS games
John: Hates RTS games
Natasha: Likes RTS games but has been living in a cave for a year.
So Natasha goes to www.VideoGameAddict.com and she posts the following message:
Natahsa: I've been living in a cave for a year, have I missed any good RTS titles?
John: RTS is teh suck. Everyone knows 99 was the last good year for RTS with StarCraft and Total Annihilation. Ever since then they are all derivative... collect, build rush. Every dollar you spend on RTS is a dollar that isn't spent on FPShooters. You are ruining the FPS industry by liking RTS games. You suck.
Dave: A lot of people like Rise of Nations but I thought the path finding wasn't handled very well. Lately i've been playing Warhammer: Dawn of War, the camera angle is a bit wonky so i'd recommend that you give the demo a try before you buy it.
The above is the problem i'm trying to FIX in a nutshell. Because I see it as a problem.
You guys are arguing that John has every right to respond to Natasha's post with that comment. And legally that is true. But everything John says on the topic is meaningless. Because now john's tastes have moved on that he can't find the pleasure in RTS games.
Dave on the other hand can. It doesn't mean he has to love every RTS game ever made. He can still be critical, he can still have likes and dislikes. But at least he has an ACTIVE and CURRENT membership in the "I Like RTS club"
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On TA we have a large mix of EDM genres being discussed. What I am asking is that if you see a thread about a genre you have no interest in, don't think of it as an opportunity to go in there and tell them they are . Move along.
And then in the communal threads like "songs that I like at the moment" you can go in there and post what you like. Those are the places designed for cross-polination.
And then every once in a while we will have threads like "Which is better RTS or FPS" and in there you can slag away all you want. That's the appropriate battleground for those kinds of discussions... not the innocent post Natasha made.
Be a Dave... not a John :) is it really that difficult to see?
Now let's all sing Kumbaya |
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| Laushinameee |
| me, i cant believe the amount of words some people need to express something that is so simple. Theres no point, the clueless kiddies will never understand, thats why we call them clueless. |
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| Haak |
| most people have been clueless at some point, they will learn hehe |
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| Laushinameee |
| quote: | Originally posted by Haak
most people have been clueless at some point, they will learn hehe |
exactly, no one nowadays can be expected to get involved in music and immediately know absolutely everything about the entire history of a genre... but they could at least show some sort of willingness / desire to learn about other things... the fact that they are blinkered into the omfg asot style of trance is the irritating thing. They would probably like other stuff too, but what are the chances that they will independently seek out other types of music? not high. |
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| Ian^ |
| quote: | Originally posted by Laushinameee
exactly, no one nowadays can be expected to get involved in music and immediately know absolutely everything about the entire history of a genre... but they could at least show some sort of willingness / desire to learn about other things... the fact that they are blinkered into the omfg asot style of trance is the irritating thing. They would probably like other stuff too, but what are the chances that they will independently seek out other types of music? not high. |
That's so true though. I spoke to an american once who claimed that he had heard a great new track that had never been done before called Rank 1 - Breathing (airwave)... I had great pleasure in sorting him out, but it's the same kind of attitude that is going to hurt in the future, the history is imo more important than the present when the present lacks so much in certain terms |
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| Cobalt |
| quote: | Originally posted by Laushinameee
exactly, no one nowadays can be expected to get involved in music and immediately know absolutely everything about the entire history of a genre... but they could at least show some sort of willingness / desire to learn about other things... the fact that they are blinkered into the omfg asot style of trance is the irritating thing. They would probably like other stuff too, but what are the chances that they will independently seek out other types of music? not high. |
Exactly, and I think continued ASOT dominance of the market will make that accumulation of such experience more difficult, because of the narrow scope it has taken. |
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| Laushinameee |
| & its only then will they ever understand why other people think asot trance is e, because basically it just is... |
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| paranoik0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Radagast
Will you give me an explanation without using subjective adjectives? Words like "fluffy" or "uplifting" or "dark"(armin has never played dark trance). How has the music itself changed. The only difference between epic trance of '99 and today is minor key changes in the catchy melodies. |
Music is a very subjective thing, it's hard to explain something without using adjectives! People have been giving loads of concrete examples too, what else do you want?
Mind you, i wasn't talking about the differences between 1999 epic and 2004 epic (which do exist), rather about the differences between the progressive armin played 2 years ago in ASOT and what he plays now.
And for your info he has played dark trance, at least The Gift - Love Angel (M.I.K.E. Remix) counts as dark trance in my opinion. |
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| TheVrk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Massive84
here is the fun of everything.
you have the freedom to make a post like this, so why should TTA have no freedom to say the opposite of what your saying?
makes no sense to me. |
i gotta agree.....
i've said it be4 tho, WAAAAAY too many haters in these forums.
i respect everyone's OPINION, cause thats ALL this is about.
but the entire EDM scene is about the good things
in life to me, and when i DONT like certain artists
or tracks, i dont go outta my way to BASH others who like it.
i'm sure that barely ANY djs (if any) want to
inspire negativity - they all just do their own thing:D |
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