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ASOT vs The Elites - Let's have it out (pg. 20)
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| JayD |
If your interested, read on.. It will be long, but I'll try to make it as interesting as I can and be blunt.
#1: Opinions, very important in the dance community. Not only the dance community, in any form of media.
Any person, in this case, the Dj's/artist/labels who are putting out the media are surrounded with those who deny there unbrilliance daily. What I mean is that friends and family are rarely ever are going to give negative critisism to what sounds good and what doesn't. For the most part, they're there to motivate, not disencourgage . Thus why artist / dj's go to boards like these for honest feedback. Yet another reason why any media (microsoft, american online for ex.) go to the user's for feedback. In the case of the dance community, the so called "user's" in the dance community are those who buy records, go the event, and care about the music.
#2 The Elites, the one's who know and think they know about the media more than anyone else. There is a way to give critisism, even if negative, there is a way to give anyone else. I think a major factor is the so called elites is not that they state their it constructively.
Do you honestly believe that if someone just keep's reading about their unbrilliance from the same perspective and view of those who disregard the work of theirs that they're going to listen to them? They still have their fanbase, still have people buying their products, they still are getting paid, why listen to someone who's going to keep hammering on the same view without being constructive?
It's not that the "elites" believe that they are better than everyone else. I think it's that they don't even see that they're so negative, themselve's. And that they have become so secluded into believing that they're opinion's actually matter.
When it comes down to it, maybe their opinion(s) mattered in the begining, but after a while of constant hammering and negative critisism without, in this case, even hearing or keeping up with certain artist(s) or even hearing the final product, it doesn't. Maybe it did in the begining, when they actually paid attention. Yet not so much anymore after the fact.
The thing is, after a while, It's so happeneds that the critisism's facted upon those individual's by the these "elites", are rarely with merrit. Why? Because of the fact that most of them do it without even testing the final product. In this case, the product being the music and the artist's that are putting out the product (the dj's, producers, etc), and it's seen so ocasionally. And those people's opinion's, who think they actually matter, are ultimatly not.
If you read #1 and #2, do you see how similar the two are? They may not seem so much at first.. Look closer..
One one side, you have one side that constantly tells one how brilliant they are, and the other, that constantly denies how brilliant they are. There is no inbetween.
And so the cycle continue's.
Why?
heh.
JaY |
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| Gholy Host |
| Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. I'm just tired of having certain opinions forced down my throat by people who state theirs as fact, or ridicule those who don't share their views. |
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| UWM |
| Wooei I can't wait to wade through all of this and add my contributions :) |
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| Az |
| quote: | Originally posted by UWM
Wooei I can't wait to wade through all of this and add my contributions :) |
as if you'd have anything useful to contribute anyway :stongue: |
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| Sand Leaper |
| quote: | Originally posted by Az
as if you'd have anything useful to contribute anyway :stongue: |
says you? :stongue: |
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| Az |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sand Leaper
says you? :stongue: |
:rolleyes:
:stongue: |
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| Fundamental |
| quote: | Originally posted by Gholy Host
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. I'm just tired of having certain opinions forced down my throat by people who state theirs as fact, or ridicule those who don't share their views. |
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| UWM |
| quote: | Originally posted by Az
as if you'd have anything useful to contribute anyway :stongue: |
Didn't you just praise some Anjuna release not too long ago?
:cool: |
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| Az |
| quote: | Originally posted by UWM
Didn't you just praise some Anjuna release not too long ago?
:cool: |
not really, I said it was cheesy
I just happen to like it ;)
get your ass on msn, got something to send you |
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| Dave Piazza |
| quote: | Originally posted by Disco_Gibson
i agree abot armin being generic.ive seen him a few times and have many of his sets.his older sets i love from the 1999-2000 era.but his stuff now is just so bland.i means its the same synth sounds,same melodies,same beat patterns.nothing creative or against the grain.
a few tunes explain this point...
enmass - cq
8 wonders - the morning after
active sight - out of our lives
etc etc tunes he plays in sets and his radio show.
i mean theres nothing extraordinary in these at all.they are just the same synths and melodies over and over again basically.
i blame anjunabeats to be a bigger cause of generic trance coming onto the scene than ASOT as ASOT would release great proggy stuff which i love.however anjunabeats is just the same super8,tranquility base,dj tab and oceanlab crap time and time again.
granted one of my favourite EVER tracks was released on anjunabeats.stephen j kroos - phantazmz/optimistik ep.mind blowing this was.
they are diluting trance IMO
flame away
:toothless |
1. These tracks:
enmass - cq
8 wonders - the morning after
active sight - out of our lives
do not sound the same. :whip: They are different in sound, theme, and structure ,etc.
I would not recommend you play these tunes in this order because you wont get the full effect of each track.
I will agree with you that Armin's programming is poor. Armin has the tendency to follow this above mentioned programming pattern. He seems to just drop track after track without thinking. Yet it works in the clubs ( which is his main priority in the sets you hear).
stephen j kroos - phantazmz/optimistik ep was boring.
Lets be honest, all Dj's have ty qualities in regaurds to their skills, programming, tune selection, etc. No one is perfect. They can not please everyone, however, the best Dj's are able to please the majority ( and the majority is not TA memebers but average clubbers or music listeners). Successful Dj's build a loyal fan base ( i.e. Tiesto ). Thus they dont give a if I or you say 'hey you suck'. They have millions of fans already. They worked their ass off in the begining to get to where they are now.
But remeber The Creative Destruction Theory. Everything today will destroy itself or die inorder for something new to come into existance. Armin and PVD will fade away and then new artists in the dance music community will be born. Always remeber that its the music and not the artists which define underground dance music. |
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| idoru |
| quote: | Originally posted by Gholy Host
Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. I'm just tired of having certain opinions forced down my throat by people who state theirs as fact, or ridicule those who don't share their views. |
Then skip over our posts. |
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| Cobalt |
Firstly:
| quote: | Originally posted by Psiweaver
Now take that stick out of your asses Cobalt and Laushananee or whatever the your name is bitch. |
| quote: | | ... being complete utter ing s ... |
Somehow I don't think you're in a place to criticize flaming given these comments.
| quote: | Originally posted by Psiweaver
If somone likes what they are hearing when they listen to ASOT let them have there fun in there ASOT threads etc. Just don't go in, you knows what inside and what to expect. |
You're basically asking people to not voice their opinion. There's a difference between baseless flaming and legitimate criticism. I agree that there should be none of the former, but the majority of what you are calling "bashing" is the latter. You're lumping the two together and then using it to justify censorship.
| quote: | | You guys are nothing but negative in everyone one of your posts. |
Well, that's just plain incorrect for starters; I post plenty of positive criticism when it's warranted. But what you don't seem to understand is that negative criticism is not bad. If there was no negative criticism art would have no meaning at all, no direction or value. The important part is to offer reasons for that criticism, and nearly everyone here who criticises ASOT does that.
Calling foul over flames is one thing, but calling supported arguments that conflict with yours "bashing" is just a poor way of avoiding the point.
| quote: | | I like some armin mixes and some pvd mixes and i like just about every EDM genre but you guys saying that because i have an opinion i should always voice it is a stupid pointless argument. |
No one is saying you "have to" do anything. But it is perfectly fair for others to voice their opinion as much as they like so long as they have reasons to back it up. Such criticism is a vital part of art, trance included.
| quote: | | the points you make basicly say that because you like ASOT etc. then you are stupid and you know nothing about music. |
That's a straw man argument. You haven't really been paying attention to the arguments if you're honestly interpreting them that way.
| quote: | | Honestly does it really make your life worse that they like something you don't. |
It has nothing to do with the quality of my "life," and everything to do with the quality of the music.
| quote: | | I'm sure your ing neghibor likes something you don't do you go over every morning and tell him how stupid he is because he likes that thing. NO YOU DON'T you just don't talk about that thing with him. |
This is an open forum designed for the very purpose of argument, not a series of private households. Your comparison doesn't work.
| quote: | | If you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything. I know it might require some self restraint but that'll probably be good for you. |
Again, you're merely trying to justify censorship of legitimate discussion.
| quote: | | people this is supposed to be a place where you come to talk about something that is important and means a lot to you. MUSIC. Lets keep it to that. |
Er, when has the point ever strayed from music? Discussing something important to us, music, is the entire point of such critisicm. I really don't understand the point you're trying to make here.
| quote: | | ASOT fans don't come into your threads and bash away do they? All everyone is asking is to stop the bashing. |
Criticism does not equal bashing. This seems to be something you don't understand, and it's key to the very idea of a forum, the very idea of art.
By all means, Armin fans are more than welcome to come into Way Out West threads and explain their opinions of the material.
| quote: | | I'll be surprised if anyone of you ever stop, because your are just as cluess about acting like an adult, dealing with things you don't like, and generally voicing your opions, then anyone new trance fan is about his genre. |
Understanding how to debate people who disagree with you, and doing so with actual evidence and reason, is acting like an adult. Saying that people who disagree ought to be silenced is not.
| quote: | | Do you really think that people will actually listen to you when the first things you tell them is that your music sucks and your stupid and a ing idiot because of it. |
I don't ever say this.
| quote: | | Maybe you guys just need to realize that your opinions aren't the most important in the world and it would actually make tranceaddict a better place if you didn't always voice them. |
It has nothing to do with feeling opinions are important, and everything to do with having evidence to support them.
There is no argument for silencing legitimate free speech, unless you subscribe to living under a totalitarian dictatorship.
| quote: | | The thing is nobody is trying to say that ASOT etc are ing amazing in this thread there just asking for a stop to the flaming of people in every thread talking about ASOT etc. |
Legitimate argument is not flaming.
| quote: | | I'm sick of people randomly coming in and hijacking threads where people are having a good time talking about some Album, Song, Show etc that they like and being told that they shouldn't like it and that they are for liking it. |
I never say this.
| quote: | | Just don't enter the thread. Why is your opinion any better than the next persons, oh wait its not. so let the people who like ASOT talk about it in there threads free of harassment. |
Debate is not harassment. And the argument you're making here is nothing but an attempt to silence people and censor things you're don't like to hear.
| quote: | | all i'm debating about is wether people can talk about what they love without being abused by the rest of the TA community. |
Expressing an opinion and then supporting it is not abuse. You're merely arguing to silence people. That's what fascist governments do, but not open forums.
| quote: | | BAHHHHHHHHHHHH BAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH BAHHHHHHHHHH look at all the furry sheep |
Very convincing and substantial. |
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