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Please post a sample of a bad Tiesto mix (pg. 12)
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| Pio |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ishkur
Prove it. |
You ignore my comment that art is not a science, therefore values are relative and the concepts of "proof" cannot be empiricized.
| quote: | hah! I was just thinking the same thing about you. You've read a lot of books. You possess much theory and blatherscite. But no understanding.
You're like a guy who has read a how-to book on figure skating, and now believes he's an Olympic figure skater without ever having stepped onto the ice. |
I am a musician. I've played Penderecki's Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima in an orchestra conducted by Krzysztof himself. Great composer, terrible conductor by the way.
I'm more into theory and musicology than performance these days for professional reasons...but I'm a musician.
| quote: | | I don't follow DJs. I follow music. |
You know what I meant. Their productions, or the styles that they were hammering back then. Northern Exposure III made it big in 1994 because of marketing? Right....
| quote: | *sigh* It's like we're walking through a forest, and I'm explaining how green it is, and you find a red plant on the ground, and you go "SEE! This proves the forest is red."
For once....put down the ing pretentious music theory textbook and look up. |
Again you are wrongly assigning objective values to music.
| quote: | | What, Gouryella? ....are you ing kidding me? |
So you think that Gouryella became a big hit in 1999 because of the powerful corporate marketing behind superstar pop DJs such as Ferry and Tiësto?
| quote: | | (you constantly bring up classical composers. Why is that? Are you striking for legitimacy? If mentioned in the same breath, that somehow brings forth the claim that trance is intelligent music for highly-evolved people only? .....Measure the music on its own terms, comparing it with its brethren. Comparing trance to classical is like comparing a bicycle to a jet. Sure, they're both useful modes of transportation, depending on if you're going to Japan or the supermarket. But just the same, its a fairly useless comparison). |
I insist on the analogy because of the cultural ethos behind the music, not because of their quality. I come from the classical scene, and it is only natural for me to draw the strings together.
I would NEVER say that the quality of trance has ever been even close to the old classics, music-wise....my comparison is strictly cultural.
| quote: | Wait wait wait wait....so you're calling trance[]control generic, but Gouryella not.
The mind. It boggles. |
It's all about context. Gouryella sounds generic now, since that formula and sound has been exploited millions of time ever since, but it wasn't generic back then. The degeneration of the formula into dull, generic constrained music is the reason why Tiësto abandoned the project and Ferry stayed with it after Tenshi.
| quote: | This reads like a whiny teenager to his dad over playing his noisy music late at night. "You just don't get it, man. You're not WITH IT."
Yes, pull out the "This music is only for people in the super secret club. Members only!", cultural aesthetic card again. |
My only point is that Dutch cheese has a different and recognizable taste from French cheese and from Swedish cheese and from Swiss cheese and so on. If your taste buds are not that developed (or your ear is not that trained) to tell the difference then tough luck. You hate the cultural aesthetic card because you don't understand it.
| quote: | | By all means, divulge. |
I don't have time to give you a history lesson. Google it up. Twilo was so ed up that the club manager was hiding clubbers that had OD'd in private ambulances. It was closed down for in 2001 for its rampant hedonism.
| quote: | | ummm....what the hell are you talking about. The TAZ has nothing to do with PLUR, and little to do with rave (anymore). This statement makes absolutely no sense. |
I was referring, of course, to your own definition of TAZ.
"Once the proud, self-serving, underlying philosophy of rave culture, the Temporary Autonomous Zone has since been replaced by a simpler, broader, less intelligent (and thus more marketable) credo--namely, PLUR. "
So you said that TAZ was replaced by PLUR, so that's why I ask if what I experienced then was PLUR and not TAZ. hehehe.
Well, Daft Punk is one of my favorite bands ever. I love music that DOESN'T take itself too seriously as well. Anything from italo disco to DJ Assault and John B. Liquid funk, Miami bass, drill & bass, nu jazz, whatever's good. I'm never stuck with a single genre...
| quote: | | What a coincidence, I know music theory blowhards on internet message forums who can wax pathetic about intellectually bankrupt minor-key melody central european music like its a gift from God himself, yet can't seem to accept music for what it really is, which is the simplest form of enjoyment. |
I don't like purists in either side of the spectrum. Not that analytical and theoretical deconstruction is not useful for expanding one's knowledge of music, and some people do enjoy doing this. But I agree that the important thing is enjoying the music.
| quote: | | But that's not music written for enjoyment, that's music written for the purpose of intellectual masturbation and for the experience of new forms. |
Believe it or not, but it is possible for people to enjoy this. Complexity is always interesting if you're able to understand it.
| quote: | I do understand your words and your context. All too well, I understand how much of it is actually sophomoric crap. How else do you think I was so easily able to emulate your style? You are not saying ANYTHING of any substance at all. I despised that kind of writing when I first encountered it back in school, and I still despise it, and I keep a copy of Orwell's "Politics and the English Language" right here on my desk to remind myself not to divulge into that territory when writing something heavy-handed.
If you have something to say, say it with intent, purpose, and clarity. Resist the temptation to sink into flowery, obfuscating prose in an attempt to make it sound intelligent and beyond reproach. You are not impressing anyone when you write vague words with cloudy meanings. More times than not, the exact opposite result is achieved. |
I'm not trying to sound intelligent at all. This is how I speak English, I'm sorry. Yes, I also have a political science degree and I've read way too much political theory and the likes of Orwell for my own good. But I'm sorry, I'm talking as a musician here, not as a political scientist.
But I repeat that you don't understand my musical context or perspective simply we got into this from different backgrounds. Nothing wrong with that. |
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| Siatrovouni |
| nice discussion here |
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| Sykonee |
| quote: | | You know what I meant. Their productions, or the styles that they were hammering back then. Northern Exposure III made it big in 1994 because of marketing? Right... |
I seem to recall Sasha being called 'Son of God' by Mixmag around that time. That's pretty trumped up marketing right there, if you ask me. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| I think that was a piss-take of his arrogance. |
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| Pio |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sykonee
I seem to recall Sasha being called 'Son of God' by Mixmag around that time. That's pretty trumped up marketing right there, if you ask me. |
No, it happened because the music was actually good and people liked it. He became legendary in the UK's club circuit from early on, since the late 1980s.
| quote: | | He bluffed his way into his first DJ bookings and, via some of Blackburn's largest rave parties, soon became resident at Shelley's in Stoke, where he earned a formidable reputation. Mixmag even put him on the magazine cover with the words, "The Son Of God". |
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| isoterra |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis86
Then why do we even have ing DJ's? Why dont they just stop one track and press play on another? How about we have a guy make a playlist on a CD of your favorite tracks, un mixed and just pop it in a CD player while you all dance and have a wonderfull time. And the guy who burned the CD can do the jesus pose like tiesto...and everyone can say what greast trackselection he has?
in hell you guys are retarded. |
| quote: | | If you don't care about good mixing you're not a true EDM fan. |
^ i (and i'm guessing AJ too) interpreted that as "if you don't care about mixing not being spot on perfect all the time then you're not a true edm fan". as of course, there's a big difference between: a)occasionally mis-cueing/letting beats slip, and b) not attempting to mix whatsoever... although you don't need me to point that out to you |
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| Sykonee |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I think that was a piss-take of his arrogance. |
Ah, that would explain it. It's easy to take quotes out of context.
Mind, when it comes Mixmag sometimes... |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| I could well be wrong because I never saw the issue, but Mixmag still call him that and the tone is very sarcastic these days. |
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| paranoik0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ishkur
Listen, looking at it very simply musicology and ethnically, Sasha & Digweed are essentially Imperical maleonglece of a rhythmically radical yet verbally passé and temporally transcended lyrically content welded with historically innovative melodical material transposed and transmogrified by the ankus of the Progressive ethic experience which elevated them from essentially alpha exponents of in essence merely beta potential harmonic material into the prime cultural exponents of Aloin condensic prog standard form. |
what the flying :haha: |
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| A.J. |
| quote: | | What a coincidence, I know music theory blowhards on internet message forums who can wax pathetic about intellectually bankrupt minor-key melody central european music like its a gift from God himself, yet can't seem to accept music for what it really is, which is the simplest form of enjoyment. |
Perhaps you should follow your own words. |
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| Armada_hk |
| personally i dont understand why you guys post threads like this in the first place..If you that much better then how come no ones ever heard of you? Tiesto became famous because he was a good dj, regardless of whether he still is. If he sucks now then he will slip out of the publics attention and dissapear. |
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| |Thrax| |
man, i read all 11 pages of this thread, got to page 9 and realized: THIS THREAD SUCKS.
somebody call the waaambulance and bring a box of tissues.
:haha: |
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