|
Please post a sample of a bad Tiesto mix (pg. 16)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Ishkur |
| quote: | Originally posted by Pio
Where did I say that they were genius?
|
You've been trying to shove it down my throat for five ing pages, in various different ways!! That's the whole point of this gigantic argument! Are they good or not? I say no. You say yeah. Round 1, ding ding ding.
| quote: | Originally posted by Pio
That's exactly what crowd reading is, molding the set according to crowd reaction.
|
Thank you. Guess what: Trance DJs don't do this. House DJs seldom do this anymore. Techno DJs do it. Jungle DJs have a whole schtick dedicated to it (RE-WIND! TUNE COMING!). Hardcore doesn't give a .
Hip hop DJs are the best at it.
| quote: | Originally posted by Pio
Some countries like their trance harder, others like it edgier and more proggish, others like it ridiculously anthemic, etc.
|
Yeah, that's why Tiesto sounds different when he plays Suburban Train in Spain than when he plays it in America. He reads the crowd, and then plays the record that appeals to their tastes.
heh.
| quote: | Originally posted by Pio
And that is why the only "trance" sets I can enjoy these days are those that break away from these paradigms. Even if it takes playing the Swedish mafia house flavor de jour, I appreciate how Tiësto is still able to go beyond that mold of a trance DJ that you so ably described, even if these kinds of sets are the exception and not the norm nowadays.
|
You must have really simple tastes. The kind that robots will cater to 20 years from now.
| quote: | Originally posted by Pio
But human constructs are relative to perspective and context.
|
You can't alter human constructs anymore than you can grow a second head or an extra foot. There's no perspective or context their to relate. You know why there are eight notes per scale? ....eight fingers on the keys. That's a human construct. Our appreciation for music--especially the western 12-tone scale--is all due to the number of forward resting appendages we have at the end of our arms. Imagine what music would sound like if we had tentacles instead.
You have a music degree, why should I even have to explain this to you?
| quote: | Originally posted by Pio
I'm talking about the root chord of the harmonic progression in the track, which is the lowest voice I can hear. It also moves in 16ths, so I considered that to be rolling. There are two to three (at times) other inner voices in the track, but I'm talking about the root of every chord, which would naturally be the bassline.
|
Yeah. That's not the arpeggiating part. Listen again.
(16th notes are rolling? ....huh. Never heard of that before)
| quote: | Originally posted by Pio
I quoted what you said in another thread and in your website.
|
Oh come on. You can not SERIOUSLY be this pedantic.
| quote: | Originally posted by Pio
Of course. It was all a retrofuturistic interpretation of American funk, soul and disco....but with a particular French touch and flavor that made it so refreshing and original.
|
Noooooo...it was the French mimicking American southern bass music. I just explained this. PAY ATTENTION, stupid.
| quote: | Originally posted by Pio
I didn't say that. French culture, however, in a few instances has gravitated towards importing exotic flavors
|
WHOA....this is the FRENCH we're talking about, right? The FRENCH? ....
| quote: | Originally posted by Pio
and washing them out as a Western European form of expression. The funky flavor in French house is pretty ironic, it has an obvious Euro feel.
|
Actually, it's American. I'm not sure where you're getting the "euro flavour" from. Explain.
| quote: | Originally posted by Pio
How many "Dutch trance" producers after 2000 hailed from the UK or even America? Quite a few.
|
Like who? If there are any (I assume so), does that not defeat your argument? That cultural esthetics don't determine musical exploration. Rather, it's a product of environment and exposure. And marketing. And the "grunge" effect.
And if you call that culture, then maybe society is in worse shape than we thought.
| quote: | Originally posted by Pio
Yes and they were just as cheesy German trancers, even if they eventually repented and the rest is history... |
ohh? At one point did they make cheese en masse, and at what point did they repent? And at what point did they think their farts smelled like roses?
(remember: I never said cheese was bad. I said lying about it being cheese is bad. NEVER EVER fake the funk. Always own up on your intentions, and you'll be respected and exonerated for just about any crappy output) |
|
|
| Aiwendil |
You know where you can get those sets. At least, i'm pretty sure you can find those sets there, if you try hard enough. this set is there. I don't know how many are. keyword "clubnight" might help a little. And there are people here who recorded every clubnight as it aired and still have the tapes.
Oh. No, I don't have them. |
|
|
| Aiwendil |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ishkur
Jungle DJs |
That's "Dubplate Selektors" man......jeezz....I can't believe I have to explain this to you... |
|
|
| Pio |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ishkur
You've been trying to shove it down my throat for five ing pages, in various different ways!! That's the whole point of this gigantic argument! Are they good or not? I say no. You say yeah. Round 1, ding ding ding. |
No, I've just been defending personal, subjective appreciation based on context and circumstances over your absolute universal truisms.
| quote: | Thank you. Guess what: Trance DJs don't do this. House DJs seldom do this anymore. Techno DJs do it. Jungle DJs have a whole schtick dedicated to it (RE-WIND! TUNE COMING!). Hardcore doesn't give a .
Hip hop DJs are the best at it. |
Selectah! Most trance DJs don't do it, but it's theoretically possible, especially when the DJ goes beyond trance.
| quote: |
Yeah, that's why Tiesto sounds different when he plays Suburban Train in Spain than when he plays it in America. He reads the crowd, and then plays the record that appeals to their tastes.
heh. |
No, but that's why he plays techier in Colombia (a country with a huge techno scene) and funkier in a private party in Prague....adapting to circumstance and context.
| quote: | | You must have really simple tastes. The kind that robots will cater to 20 years from now. |
Are you saying that because I prefer Swedish house mafia electro-house than trance these days?
| quote: | You can't alter human constructs anymore than you can grow a second head or an extra foot. There's no perspective or context their to relate. You know why there are eight notes per scale? ....eight fingers on the keys. That's a human construct. Our appreciation for music--especially the western 12-tone scale--is all due to the number of forward resting appendages we have at the end of our arms. Imagine what music would sound like if we had tentacles instead.
You have a music degree, why should I even have to explain this to you? |
The social construct of the scale has been historically different in the West than the East. Why is that a fact if not for the relative context of the humanistic experiences in the different regions?
| quote: | Yeah. That's not the arpeggiating part. Listen again.
(16th notes are rolling? ....huh. Never heard of that before) |
As I said before, I always thought that a rolling bassline was a bassline that moved forward rhythmically faster than the quarter note kick, effectively having a rolling effect. But i haven't read about the term from any authoritative source, so enlighten me if I'm wrong.
| quote: | Noooooo...it was the French mimicking American southern bass music. I just explained this. PAY ATTENTION, stupid.
WHOA....this is the FRENCH we're talking about, right? The FRENCH? ....
Actually, it's American. I'm not sure where you're getting the "euro flavour" from. Explain. |
They were "mimicking" American music, but the outcome of their interpretation didn't turn out exactly as autoctonous American music. Come on, Bangalter's productions don't sound American! The influences are obvious...but the product is cheesy Euro fun. It's the heart and soul of the music, something that cannot be judged according to any absolute value.
| quote: | Like who? If there are any (I assume so), does that not defeat your argument? That cultural esthetics don't determine musical exploration. Rather, it's a product of environment and exposure. And marketing. And the "grunge" effect.
|
Environment and exposure are also a factor, especially after a certain style has been pioneered and naturally exported through the channels of globalization. After exporting the style, the artist can either adapt it to his circumstance and be an instrument in its evolution for better or worst (like Gabriel and Dresden, Mark Schulz and all the McProg American artists), or simply imitate the art form and leave it as it is (producers like Thomas Datt or Filo & Peri). Those are all different approaches to the import of cultural aesthetics, which include environment and exposure.
| quote: | ohh? At one point did they make cheese en masse, and at what point did they repent? And at what point did they think their farts smelled like roses?
(remember: I never said cheese was bad. I said lying about it being cheese is bad. NEVER EVER fake the funk. Always own up on your intentions, and you'll be respected and exonerated for just about any crappy output) |
At what time did monkeys become human?
And I've never lied about Dutch trance being cheese or not. Of course it is! It is Gouda! |
|
|
| miamitranceman |
| You all should really give the Tiesto Live at Duplex Prague 11-20-05 set a listen. Really well put together set and the mixing is really great, many of them well over a minute long. He also throws in some backspins, sfx, choppy cuts, and bass cuts. Let the music do the talking. :cool: |
|
|
| Rockabye |
| quote: | Originally posted by miamitranceman
You all should really give the Tiesto Live at Duplex Prague 11-20-05 set a listen. Really well put together set and the mixing is really great, many of them well over a minute long. Let the music do the talking. :cool: |
uhm...a transition of one minute is nothing special ;) |
|
|
| miamitranceman |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rockabye
uhm...a transition of one minute is nothing special ;) |
Lol, fair enough, but he's not just fader slamming or anything.
And you should hear the stuff he does to Mercury & Solace... :crazy: :crazy: |
|
|
| Rockabye |
| listen to the transition from mercury & solace to air for life...it sounds awful... |
|
|
| Clovis86 |
| quote: | Originally posted by miamitranceman
You all should really give the Tiesto Live at Duplex Prague 11-20-05 set a listen. Really well put together set and the mixing is really great, many of them well over a minute long. He also throws in some backspins, sfx, choppy cuts, and bass cuts. Let the music do the talking. :cool: |
Wow a minute transition WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT WAS POSSIBLE!!!!
OMG BACKSPIN !!!1111
OH BASS CUT!!!111
Do you know someone named James Zabiela?
ing hell man you have low standards.... |
|
|
| paranoik0 |
| What's wrong with Love Stimulation? |
|
|
| eRRaTiK |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ishkur
It's not what he does wrong that makes him a bad DJ.
It's what he doesn't do at all.
Playing a record, and then playing another record 6 minutes later is not impressive. In the annals of competent DJing, it passes off as nothing more than slightly adequate.
Don't give me bull about "reading the crowd". Like there are people out there who don't know how to do that, and it's some mystical, magical skill that takes years of practice and hardwork to master. Please. It's a bull trumped-up accolade wrought from the pupil-dilated, cotton-spitting mouths of his hopping minions who still think he's performing his own original music live, all by himself. Children can read crowds. It's something we all pick up before the age of 10. So unless you're an alien who's never interacted with humans before and thus wouldn't understand posture and body language and genuine reactions, don't ing talk to me about his ability to "read the crowd". Yeah. Raise your arms in the air when the snare roll hits. Real ing rocket science there.
Don't give me bull about "track selection". As a human advertisement for his own productions, the productions of other artists on his label, and the productions of his friends and his friends' labels, that's all he plays and that's all he's interested in playing. He's there to sell music and furthergrade the publicity of his own clique of supertrance DJs and producers, not play anything special, new, inventive or engaging. He's even said his self-described "goal" is to play a 6 hour set of just his own work. Tell me: Are you seriously going to be impressed with that? If someone were smart, they could go ahead and beat Tiesto to the punch. Hell, I should go and do that right now, just for a lark. Will you call me #1 then? eh?
Don't give me bull about "taking you on a journey". He's playing solo tracks back to back, each track trying to outshine the others as the apex/climax of the whole mix, and that's the whole problem with the breakdown/anthem paradigm. Tracks don't blend into each other anymore, they repel each other, because each one is trying too hard to stand out, to be the UBER CHOON, to get played on Pete Tong's radio show so all the punters can buy a copy and the producer fills his coffers. Trance hasn't taken anyone on a journey for a terribly long time. You're not going on journeys, you're riding on merry-go-rounds, and for some ing reason you think that each time around the scenary is going to change.
(I'm speaking, of course, only of the trance that Tiesto plays. The Goa/Psy scene is exempt from this accusation)
So...take away the crowd, since pleasing them is like pleasing a child with candy. They're so stupid they'll like anything with a breakdown, a snare roll and an anthem. And take away the track selection, since it's never been about finding and playing rare, obscure, or hidden unknown cuts, but rather self-promotion and self-aggrandizement. Take away the journey, since trance hasn't been conducive to that sort of tapestry-like mixing since the mid 90s. And take away the DJing, because....well, let's face it: He doesn't really do very much of it. And what's left?
No, really. I want to know: What's left? I'll stop harping on Tiesto as soon as someone can rationally and reasonably justify to me why I should like him. |
the chosen one has spoken! |
|
|
| montana |
kent, i have them, and no, i'm not going to give them to you. now do ta a favour and shutup and go back to your site and continue mocking us because we are never getting the plot. who cares. these threads always end up a head to head battle between the 4 usuals (and on occasion unwordly). oh and radagast, i must say, i did really like you better when you wasn't ripping of everything ishkur ever wrote and thought it was cool listening to 4 strings and atb because they were your favourite dj's |
|
|
|
|
