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Please post a sample of a bad Tiesto mix (pg. 24)
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| teknomonki |
| quote: | Originally posted by Abhay
It's important to understand, that when a lot of ppl vote for their favourite DJ, they don't just look at the "DJing skills". They see production and remixes, as part of the world class DJs repatwar (or however the hell u spell that).
Knowing that, is it really hard that hard to believe, that a lot of ppl, including me, appreciate Tiesto's skills, that aren't related to his mixing abilities on a live set.
In the end, i think the polls just need to be better defined. Maybe it's better to have separate polls for productions, remixes, and Live Sets. |
Maybe, but Tiesto cant get levels right when he is live,so we can almost guarantee he doesnt mix his own trax in teh studio either!
U have got a really good point with the seperate polls idea, Above & Beyond are really quite painful live (although Anjuna is nowt worth praising either) but their productions are TECHNICALLY very competent in regards to sounds and mixing. |
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| Azz3D |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance-MB
U2? Trance? Tiesto declined making a remix for U2 and wouldn't play |
are you comparing U2 to tiesto? tiesto can't hold a candle to u2. i know they are two different professions but it just had to be said.
u2 are legends
tiesto is a fad, nothing else |
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| RebeL9 |
haha comparing U2 with Tiesto. Some of the Tiesto worshippers needs to be taken down to the ground again.
Soon they will compare Tiesto with Jesus. "See he can make the Jesus pose even better than Jesus!"
give me a in brake. :nervous: |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance-MB
Of course Paul and Norman are great and world wide known DJ's. Nice numbers by the way, but how many people listened to Tiesto's gigs? |
Yes. Repeating an argument doesn't make it any more valid than the last time I refuted it. Out of those 4.5 billion people who saw Tiesto, 4.499 billion of them wouldn't have cared at all. Do you find that 2/3s of the people you know suddenly recognise Tiesto as "that guy from the Olympics", because nobody I know clocked on. He was picked for that show because the organisers liked his blend of classical pomp and super-modern trance (namely, his cover of Adagio For Strings) and thought it would be a good soundtrack to the Olympics taking place in modern Greece. If it had been five years ago when Greece hosted it, Ferry would probably be stood there for his mix of Adagio For Strings.
| quote: |
About Tiesto in Concert: Tiësto was the first DJ to hold a solo concert in a stadium when he did so for over 25 000 people. |
The only achievement here is that nobody else supported him. Loads of DJs have played stadiums and even bigger venues, but they weren't ego-centric enough to devote a whole show to their magnificence. Oakey and Cook playe to larger audiences at major music festivals such as Glastonbury every year. So Tiesto's massive achievement is entirely centred around making 25,000 people pay a ridiculous sum to watch one DJ do one thing all night. I wouldn't really call that a "great thing". DJ worship is sickening, and to see a DJ revel in it to such an extent is pitiful. |
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| david.michael |
| So, how about them soundclips... |
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| Wyndham |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Yes. Repeating an argument doesn't make it any more valid than the last time I refuted it. Out of those 4.5 billion people who saw Tiesto, 4.499 billion of them wouldn't have cared at all. Do you find that 2/3s of the people you know suddenly recognise Tiesto as "that guy from the Olympics", because nobody I know clocked on. He was picked for that show because the organisers liked his blend of classical pomp and super-modern trance (namely, his cover of Adagio For Strings) and thought it would be a good soundtrack to the Olympics taking place in modern Greece. If it had been five years ago when Greece hosted it, Ferry would probably be stood there for his mix of Adagio For Strings.
The only achievement here is that nobody else supported him. Loads of DJs have played stadiums and even bigger venues, but they weren't ego-centric enough to devote a whole show to their magnificence. Oakey and Cook playe to larger audiences at major music festivals such as Glastonbury every year. So Tiesto's massive achievement is entirely centred around making 25,000 people pay a ridiculous sum to watch one DJ do one thing all night. I wouldn't really call that a "great thing". DJ worship is sickening, and to see a DJ revel in it to such an extent is pitiful. |
so, so true. |
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| Pio |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ishkur
The question isn't whether it's part of their culture to love epic trance....the question is whether they would love epic trance if none of those DJs were dutch.
Again. Homerism. You love what your hometown produces, not out of genuine affection or objective consideration, but out of communal loyalty. |
I don't think that their love of epic trance is a result of objective consideration as much as it is an attraction towards its Gouda-cheesy aesthetics.
| quote: | That's not your argument. Your argument is that there is a carefully guarded, secreted, pure and brilliant sense of musicianship ingrained in the Dutch culture which entitles them and ONLY them to come up with a certain kind of music....a music that no one else could possibly have thought of, so they need the Dutch to show them the way.
I say that's bull. Not to mention arrogant. |
That's not my argument. There's no secret or special talent involved in the process that eventually resulted in the Dutch trance movement of the late 90s. It was, however, a product of context and circumstance in the import of a neigboring country's artform (Germany). The Dutch/Flemish producers simply gave it their own take, and the result is evident. That is why there is melodic, structural, and musical cohesiveness in most of the epic trance productions that came especially from Holland and Belgium in that era.
| quote: | All things considered, if you've studied history, you'll find that most everything that's come about is almost due to complete and total randomness. People/systems/cultures don't have a conscious idea of what they're doing or where they're going, beyond immediate survival. But they stumble upon things by accident, and a second generation usually finds some applicability with them, and then that worms its way further until standards developed. This is true everywhere. Regardless of city, location or culture. Irrespective of technology, ideas....or music.
Your cultural esthetics are worthless. |
I actually agree partially with what you're saying because those accidents you're talking about are a result of context, circumstance and environment....which are the principal factors that incide in cultural discourse. That's the reason why if you ever try to dance salsa you would probably just make a fool out of yourself even if you took classes, but to someone who grew up in that context (Latin Caribbean countries or Latin Caribbean neighborhoods) the whole dance thing will probably come naturally without much effort. Genetics and ethnicity are also a factor to a certain extent but with various exceptions...You've said it yourself, white people are more inclined towards melody, black people are more inclined towards rhythm. Even if this is all a result of random accidents that have occurred throughout history, the contrasting cultural aesthetics that resulted from these accidents are more than evident.
| quote: | I invented the term McTrance in 1999 to refer to the sudden tendancy of anthem trance producers to rape the same template over and over again in their quest to fill the gaping mouths of newbie trance ravers who couldn't get enough anthems and snare rolls. During its height, the anthems were so ridiculously popular that producers couldn't churn them out fast enough. Transa made no less than 12 tracks with the same settings. He didn't even change the weight of the percussion any. Some of them were being spit out in mere hours. It was pulp trance. Cheap, aimless knockoffs capitalizing on the big anthemic hits. It was like they had an assembly line going, with a computer generating insta-melodies, the same values in the drums, basslines, pads and leads, and slapped onto Super Ibiza Trance Nation Best Club Anthems Ever Vol. 834 compilations. It reminded me of fast food.....something of no actual quality or sustenance, made cheaply for mass digestion. Hence: McTrance.
Now....what was your reasoning behind the McProg monicker, other than being a gracious stylebiter? |
McProg is obviously analogous to your own definition of McTrance, as it is consciously derived from the term that you invented. Five years after the heyday of McTrance and the progressive rift into monotonous shame by former trance artists such as Sasha and Digweed, there was a new tendency (mainly in America) that intended to fully converge both styles combining the structure of trance and the aesthetic trends of prog. The result was McProg. These people probably heard stuff like James Holden's Nothing and thought: "wow, melodic anthems can be cool, edgy and proggish again....better yet, they can even have vocals!". But then they took it out of context and designed a melodic "prog" anthem formula that has been raped to death ever since. (Keep in mind that I call it "prog" because that's what the music intends to be). Probspot pretty much did the same thing as Transa back then, using the same formula and the same percs in every track. Markus Schulz pretty much did exactly the same thing in every "Coldharbour reconstruction" or whatever. Gabriel and Dresden remixed pop tunes following the same stale formula. All in all, McProg is watered-down, saccharinne, commercially accessible, epic trance-friendly, melodic and formulaic "prog".
If you want to know what McProg exactly is, all you have to do is listen to Markus Schulz show: Global DJ Broadcast.
Seminal McProg tracks:
Markus Schulz presents Elevation - Clear Blue (or the vocal version Somewhere)
OceanLab - Satellite (or even worst....Markus Schulz's Coldharbour Mix)
Mark Otten - Tranquility (Markus Schulz Coldharbour Mix)
Motorcycle (Gabriel and Dresden) - As the Rush Comes
Well, really anything produced by these guys, Perry O'neil, Ozgur Can and hammered to death by Armin in ASOT and the Anjuna and Armada's EE label.
Dave Dresden pretty much sums up their intentions in his reply to this question asked in an interview:
| quote: | Progressive-Sounds: What is your definition of the term progressive?
Dave: Something that is breaking ground. You can't have mainstream without the underground to support it. "progressive house" came about as a reaction to "rave anthems", and took things back to house. Then it sort of melted with trance. Trance then went the "euro" path and the progressive tem got famous as that. It ended up taking a lot of the fun out of dance music. I think a new path has to be forged with progressive. It has to be listenable and danceable but not cheesy. I think the stuff Josh and I are doing is right in line with that. |
Right, so breaking ground. That's why he became popular thanks to Armin and Tiësto. |
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| Trance-MB |
| quote: | Originally posted by RebeL9
haha comparing U2 with Tiesto. Some of the Tiesto worshippers needs to be taken down to the ground again.
Soon they will compare Tiesto with Jesus. "See he can make the Jesus pose even better than Jesus!"
give me a in brake. :nervous: |
You should be writing for a gossip magazin. You're a king in twisting others words, starting stories which aren't there and have a sick taste of humour.
| quote: | U2? Trance? Tiesto declined making a remix for U2 and wouldn't play
are you comparing U2 to tiesto? tiesto can't hold a candle to u2. i know they are two different professions but it just had to be said. |
You're making suggestions. Asking a question, giving an answer yourselves and then pretend I gave the answer, jokers....
I didn't come up with U2, Madonna or Britney..... What the hell do they have to do with trance or a SOLO DJ concert.
Do you know at all what a ? means???
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1451495/bio
http://www.discogs.com/artist/DJ+Ti%EBsto
Maybe you can send them the correct information, because if he's not, he's not, no problem.
So, just prove Tiesto wasn't the first DJ to give a SOLO concert in a stadium. Solo means there was no other DJ behind the tables. And it was not a solo DJ set, he had done that before like many others. Tiesto organised the whole concert. The preformance together with Dinand Woesthoff van rockband KANE, Rain Down On Me (Tiesto remix) simply was Brillant, no doubt about that.
| quote: | | Do you find that 2/3s of the people you know suddenly recognise Tiesto as "that guy from the Olympics" |
Of course not, only people who liked it probably will remember that. I wander how many people in the US know who Pele or Cruijff is. Not many probably, but they are world wide known. But again, I cannot remember that I claimed that Tiesto is the world wide best known DJ. But if someone comes up with numbers he also should have the numbers of the other side otherwise you cannot compare it (and just don't count the opening of the Olympics.)
| quote: | | The only achievement here is that nobody else supported him. |
No true, there were lots of supports at "Tiesto in Concert I", just no DJ's.
Did you see it? |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance-MB
Of course not, only people who liked it probably will remember that. I wander how many people in the US know who Pele or Cruijff is. Not many probably, but they are world wide known. But again, I cannot remember that I claimed that Tiesto is the world wide best known DJ. But if someone comes up with numbers he also should have the numbers of the other side otherwise you cannot compare it (and just don't count the opening of the Olympics.) |
But Pele is on par with John Lennon- he'll be remembered forever. Tiesto didn't take part in the games, didn't win a medal, didn't do anything historic. He just played at the opening ceremony. It isn't exactly memorable for someone to be providing music to an opening ceremony.
| quote: |
No true, there were lots of supports at "Tiesto in Concert I", just no DJ's.
Did you see it? |
So how the holy was it a "solo" event? |
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| Trance-MB |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
But Pele is on par with John Lennon- he'll be remembered forever. Tiesto didn't take part in the games, didn't win a medal, didn't do anything historic. He just played at the opening ceremony. It isn't exactly memorable for someone to be providing music to an opening ceremony.
So how the holy was it a "solo" event? |
Tiesto is to young to compare. My point is that it is difficult to judge how known somebody is. You can say somebody is world wide know, but how would you know if someone is more known than someone else?
And please forget that opening ceremony, because he was world wide known before that.
Solo means in this case that he set up the whole concert, decided how it would look and chose all tracks. It was a complete show, not just a DJ behind the tables. |
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| Azz3D |
| quote: | Originally posted by Trance-MB
It was a just a DJ behind the tables. |
there i fixed that for ya |
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| Trance-MB |
| quote: | Originally posted by Azz3D
there i fixed that for ya |
Another one for the gossip magazine.... |
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