|
It is 2009 People... Isn't everybody tired of this minimal Bull***t by Now??? (pg. 6)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by Light The Fuse
lol at money being a quality filter. |
What he meant was that the high cost of production meant that every Tom, Dick and Joel couldn't sit down in front of their cracked version of Ableton/FL and produce a track in two hours. Only the people with a real passion for production and quality music could be bothered raising the funds. He's mostly correct.
Also, on the original topic, I find it funny that people are always slagging off "minimal", yet the very same people never actually seem to know what "it" actually is. They never name tracks, labels or specific DJs. It's like the same people who've been listening to trance since '95 and claim they hate "that house music stuff", when they have no real idea of what it actually sounds like. |
|
|
| Light The Fuse |
i think its better that any tom dick or even harry can sit in front of a craked version of abletr0nz and write a tune (its be a pc tho - farken mac cracks are terrible - but i digest...)
- joe bloggs is a natural musician and like most musicians joe is broke. joe however does have a dodgy little pc and some cracked software and creates a halfway decent track...joe gets picked up by a record label and his tune sells well...he even gets real lucky and is put onto a compilation or 2..he gets paid a few grand for being on in search of sunrise 15 and can now set up a better studio..with better equipment he is able to create better sounds...however..without that initial access to cheaper musical tools this never would have happened. my 2c |
|
|
| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by Light The Fuse
i think its better that any tom dick or even harry can sit in fron of a craked version of abletr0nz and write a tune (its be a pc tho - farken mac cracks are terrible - but i digest...)
- joe bloggs is a natural musician and like most musicians joe is broke. joe however does have a dodgy little pc and some cracked software and creates a halfway decent track...joe gets picked up by a record label and his tune sells well...he even gets real lucky and is put onto a compilation or 2..he gets paid a few grand for being on in search of sunrise 15 and can now set up a better studio..with better equipment he is able to create better sounds...however..without that initial access to cheaper musical tools this never would have happened. my 2c |
I'm in two minds. I agree half with you and half with the people who complain that the market has been flooded with as a result of cheaper production methods. While it may be true that more stuff is available than in the past, that doesn't mean good music isn't available, you just have to look harder. |
|
|
| Light The Fuse |
^ yeah thatll always be the case
- i dunno i just find it inherrantly snobby that the only talented people are people who can afford very expensive equipment |
|
|
| MrJiveBoJingles |
Secondhand music gear isn't terribly expensive anyway, depending on what you get. Unless you have lots of medical expenses or debt, kids, or you're just plain poor, you can afford to get some hardware. That's assuming that music production is at the top of your list of non-essentials, that you actually have the will to put a lot of time and love and energy into it, that you're willing to forgo blowing cash on other stuff to make your musical ambitions a reality.
The guys who made the old techno and house weren't exactly rich. They just bought whatever they could get and made creative use of it. Some of the results are pretty grungy, but that's one thing I like about them. Better than the new pristine hypercompressed silliness.
I think a lot of people are less willing to invest as much money and passion in a hobby like music than some of those guys in the old days. People are lazy, cheap, and they (we) want everything to come easy and packaged in a nice sleek box. No futzing around with cables, no puzzling over connections or how to sync up all the gear together, no buying stuff used, no dealing with physical things that get old and break down and might need to be repaired. Just download it all from p2p, free and easy, right?
:conf: |
|
|
| Domesticated |
| quote: | Originally posted by Light The Fuse
^ yeah thatll always be the case
- i dunno i just find it inherrantly snobby that the only talented people are people who can afford very expensive equipment |
That's not what it implies at all; you completely missed the point.
As JBJ just said, the early pioneers weren't well off at all; they spent all their cash on gear and struggled through early life because they loved music and were devoted to it. These days people don't have to go through the same thing, so you have a whole lot of producers who only like music, or love it but don't put in the same amount of effort because they haven't had to sacrifice in order to produce. |
|
|
| Light The Fuse |
yeah i understand that - and i understand sacrifice usually creates the best art - i just think that if someone is good at it and do love the music - itll come through in the music and really the amount of money they spent on there gear means absolute jack .
anyone who wants to make music should have the oppurtunity - just because it may mean there is more music - doesnt mean there'll be any less good music - probably means there'll be a little bit more..and thats always a good thing.
i think i even confused myself with that post :/ |
|
|
| Clovis |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
Secondhand music gear isn't terribly expensive anyway, depending on what you get. Unless you have lots of medical expenses or debt, kids, or you're just plain poor, you can afford to get some hardware. That's assuming that music production is at the top of your list of non-essentials, that you actually have the will to put a lot of time and love and energy into it, that you're willing to forgo blowing cash on other stuff to make your musical ambitions a reality.
The guys who made the old techno and house weren't exactly rich. They just bought whatever they could get and made creative use of it. Some of the results are pretty grungy, but that's one thing I like about them. Better than the new pristine hypercompressed silliness.
I think a lot of people are less willing to invest as much money and passion in a hobby like music than some of those guys in the old days. People are lazy, cheap, and they (we) want everything to come easy and packaged in a nice sleek box. No futzing around with cables, no puzzling over connections or how to sync up all the gear together, no buying stuff used, no dealing with physical things that get old and break down and might need to be repaired. Just download it all from p2p, free and easy, right?
:conf: |
What it comes down to is a lack of passion for things in general, a greater symptom of modern society. |
|
|
| sljiva |
| quote: | Originally posted by ponsshin
I just like experimental music
What really bothers me in your post is that you're criticizing warp records because they've stopped going down a path they've already explored ten years ago. Isn't that sarcastic? |
I'm criticizing Warp because they stopped releasing good and innovative music, not because they turned away from IDM (if that's what you're implying). Warp was never about IDM only, there were always some artists who were releasing quality and creative non-IDM (from LFO, Nightmares On Wax, Sabres, Tenor, Two Lone Swordsmen back in the day to Edgar, Vibert, Lidell and even Battles later), and that's exactly what's missing these days - variety and innovation. These days you have Flying Lotus (who is IMO hugely overrated), Harmonic 313 and Exile who are worth the mention, bunch of faceless indie and post rock bands such as Maximo Park, Pivot and Grizzly Bear, and the old guard (Ae, Clark, Squarepusher...) who are long past their heydays. Interesting and inspired electronic music (and even IDM) is still being made, however that music is not being released on Warp anymore.
And BTW, if you think that 2001-2005 period on Warp was just about rehashing the old sound and ideas from the 90's, you can't be more wrong. Some of the classics of the 00's such as Confield, Clarence Park, Vocal Studies + Uprock Narratives, Hello Everything, Drukqs, Double Figure, Geogaddi... are so different from the IDM records of the 90's that I wouldn't even put them under the same genre. IDM started to seriously develop from the sound of the 90's after 2001, and that development still lasts, but as I already said, you won't hear any of that development on Warp anymore. |
|
|
| sljiva |
Most of you are forgetting, however, that even in the old days you hadn't had to be that rich to produce something. Borrowing/renting a studio was a common practice back then, even for producers who owned some equipment. Renaat Vandepapeliere, who ran R&S, is probably the most famous for letting other people use his studio, so-called Techno Island. Pretty much every classic released on his label was produced there.
All those producers who had released one or two records and who are forgotten these days didn't own all the equipment they used for making that records, most of them got the idea of the track(s) while playing on their crappy synth they had at home, and then they'd rent the studio (and the studio producer) or find some other solution to produce what they conceived.
So yeah, definitely more effort was put into making the tunes, but not that much more money (for some). |
|
|
| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | | Originally posted by sljiva |
^ Good point, there was a lot more borrowing and renting back then as well. |
|
|
| enydo |
| quote: | Originally posted by Clovis
What it comes down to is a lack of passion for things in general, a greater symptom of modern society. |
Passion for ty commercial products and cheap throwaway entertainment is booming however. |
|
|
|
|
