Who got Georgia into this?
Actions by Bush and McCain misled the country into thinking the U.S. would come to its aid.
Rosa Brooks
August 14, 2008
» Discuss Article (118 Comments)
The Georgians have now been punished enough, declared Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Tuesday. Or maybe not. At press time, Russian tanks were reportedly rolling through the Georgian city of Gori, in violation of a cease-fire agreement. So there could be more punishment in store for the Georgians, who were stupid enough to imagine that if they picked a fight with Russia over the disputed region of South Ossetia, Uncle Sam would come riding to their rescue.
Puh-lease. Haven't the Georgians noticed that we're sort of busy in Afghanistan and Iraq? That even if we had any available troops, we're not going to get involved in a shooting war with Russia, which has the world's second-largest nuclear arsenal? That we have no other forms of leverage over Russia these days?
So where did the Georgians get the silly idea that the U.S. would bail them out?
Maybe from John McCain, Republican heir apparent, whose top foreign policy advisor, Randy Scheunemann, also just happens to be a highly paid lobbyist for the Georgian government. Whoops -- correction! Scheunemann usedto be a highly paid lobbyist for Georgia. The McCain campaign says Scheunemann hasn't taken a dime from the Georgians since May 15. (Which is lucky for the Georgians, who are going to need all the spare cash they can get to rebuild all the stuff the Russians just bombed.)
According to the Washington Post, the relationship between Scheunemann and Georgia used to be very cozy (not to mention lucrative for Scheunemann). Between Jan. 1, 2007, and May 15, 2008, while Scheunemann was also a paid McCain advisor, "Georgia paid his firm $290,000 in lobbying fees."
And what did Georgia get in return? Well, no troops, that's for sure. But they got Scheunemann's (expensive) pledge to garner U.S. support for Georgia's admission to NATO and for its claims to South Ossetia, and his commitment to use his ties to politicians such as McCain to advance Georgia's causes. McCain has sponsored legislation supporting Georgia's claims over South Ossetia, an issue on which he was lobbied by Scheunemann's firm. And as recently as mid-April, Scheunemann was simultaneously taking money from Georgia and actively preparing McCain for supportive calls with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili.
Is it any wonder that Saakashvili concluded that he had the backing of the U.S. Republican power structure when it came to South Ossetia?
But Scheunemann and McCain aren't the only ones who irresponsibly encouraged the Georgians to think that baiting the Russians was going to work out for them.
President Bush shares the blame. Once he stopped swooning over the soulfulness of "Vladimir's" baby blues, Bush seemed intent on showing Putin and other Russian leaders that he no longer gave a damn. The Bush administration supported the "color revolutions" in Russia's backyard and denounced antidemocratic crackdowns in Russia -- while making excuses for "friendly" authoritarian regimes elsewhere. The administration also virtually shut down extensive multi-issue dialogues with Russia that had been maintained by previous administrations, hammering in the message that we didn't care much about good relations with Moscow.
The administration also aggressively pushed policies that couldn't have been better designed to enrage the Russians. At the April NATO summit in Romania, Bush urged a fast track to NATO membership for Georgia. Th U.S. also insisted this summer on the deployment of an almost certainly useless missile defense system in Poland and the Czech Republic, virtually on Moscow's doorstep.
Meanwhile, the administration singled out Georgia for the "Our Best Buddy in the Caucasus" award. The U.S. has supported the development of gas and oil pipelines running through Georgia that will challenge Russia's regional economic hegemony, and provided the fledgling Georgian republic generous economic and military aid, including an overhaul of its forces. In return, Georgia sent 2,000 troops to Iraq, and the administration pretended to be deaf when Georgian politicians crowed that their newly improved military would be perfect for teaching those pesky South Ossetian separatists a lesson.
But it's all gone disastrously wrong for our best buddies, and we're sitting on the sidelines, offering empty reassurances to the Georgians and empty threats to the Russians.
Moscow will stop pummeling Georgia when it decides the Georgians have truly been punished enough. And this being the real world, punishment will rain down on the pawns -- but those who egged them on (to score political points, seek power or gain profit) will, of course, face no punishment at all.
Now that Russia has destroyed all Georgian military equipment and bases in Gori, they should get the hell out of there before Bush decides to do something about Russian presence within Georgia outside of Ossetias. World public stance on the situation is getting irritated by the minute.
Force Georgia to sign the peace according to the Six Point Plan, establish a UN/peacekeeper buffer zone between South Ossetia and Georgia to prevent another conflict, withdraw the troops to pre-conflict borders, and live happily ever after. Enough giving Georgians excuses like that one with the reporter shot since Georgia will now try every single trick in the book to make Russians look evil.
Krypton
quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
Now that Russia has destroyed all Georgian military equipment and bases in Gori, they should get the hell out of there before Bush decides to do something about Russian presence within Georgia outside of Ossetias. World public stance on the situation is getting irritated by the minute.
Force Georgia to sign the peace according to the Six Point Plan, establish a UN/peacekeeper buffer zone between South Ossetia and Georgia to prevent another conflict, withdraw the troops to pre-conflict borders, and live happily ever after. Enough giving Georgians excuses like that one with the reporter shot since Georgia will now try every single trick in the book to make Russians look evil.
Magnetonium
quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
LMAO! Nice find.:haha:
On a serious note, I hate communism. :whip:
The17sss
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
yeah good intelligent rtesponse there genius..
LOL. Is my response as intelligent as your spelling of the word "rtesponse"? ing fag. I was agreeing with what that other person said... there was nothing extra for me to add. Your response (or lack of) is actually one of the worst in history.
The17sss
quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Don't blame Georgia:
Oh lord... here we go. Moral equivalence time. the United States is to blame. We can't criticize naked aggression. If a sovereign nation with a duly elected leadership gets overrun by the Russian bear, hey, hey, we can't say a word... look at what we did in Iraq.
Did the Russians go to the UN Security Council and show where the Georgians had violated 14 resolutions? Did they spend a year and a half jawing with the French and others to try to get us some assistance so that we could go in and enforce UN resolutions that Saddam Hussein had broken or that the Georgians in this case? No. There is no parallel whatsoever. There's no moral equivalence, but leave it to the blame America first people to come up with it.
Q5echo
quote:
Originally posted by The17sss
Did the Russians go to the UN Security Council and show where the Georgians had violated 14 resolutions? Did they spend a year and a half jawing with the French and others to try to get us some assistance so that we could go in and enforce UN resolutions that Saddam Hussein had broken or that the Georgians in this case? No. There is no parallel whatsoever. There's no moral equivalence, but leave it to the blame America first people to come up with it.
+1
Q5echo
there should be nothing now stopping Europe from NATOizing Georgia and Ukraine. that would stop Putin and his puppet dead in their tracks. suck it up and DO IT NOW EUROPE, or pay prices like these later.
Krypton
"This is not 1968 where the Russians can occupy a nation, overthrow a government, and get away with it." Secretary of State Rice
No, Dr. Rice, it is not 1968. It is also not 2003, where the USA can occupy a nation, overthrow a government, and get away with it. Who the does Rice, Bush, or Cheney think they are telling Russia "what they expect", and throwing mindless rhetoric around. Do they know who the they're talking to? Russia! That's who. You don't talk down to Russia if you want cooperation with them! They'll just as easily to us to off for all they care. If Europe wants their natural gas, then Europe is going to have to take it in the ass from Russia.
Q5echo
quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
"This is not 1968 where the Russians can occupy a nation, overthrow a government, and get away with it." Secretary of State Rice
No, Dr. Rice, it is not 1968. It is also not 2003, where the USA can occupy a nation, overthrow a government, and get away with it. Who the does Rice, Bush, or Cheney think they are telling Russia "what they expect", and throwing mindless rhetoric around. Do they know who the they're talking to? Russia! That's who. You don't talk down to Russia if you want cooperation with them! They'll just as easily to us to off for all they care. If Europe wants their natural gas, then Europe is going to have to take it in the ass from Russia.
you act like we've never "talked down" to Russia before. can't say i blame you, you're young.
the only time we get ever cooperation with Russia is when it's in the interests of Russia regardless of what we expect. we accept that. therefor, it will always be in our interests, and other interests of Democratic peoples, to tell Russia where we stand on Russian aggression because they are Russia, after all. whether that aggression is justified in it's present scope or not.
i'm not saying Georgia is entirely free from fault here. (i'm trying with all the media to remain open-minded about this. it's tough) but as long as Russian hardware remains where it normally isn't, you will continue to hear the same rhetoric.
Krypton
quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
you act like we've never "talked down" to Russia before. can't say i blame you, you're young.
Perhaps during the Cold War. But Russia is no longer the Soviet Union.
quote:
the only time we get ever cooperation with Russia is when it's in the interests of Russia regardless of what we expect. we accept that. therefor, it will always be in our interests, and other interests of Democratic peoples, to tell Russia where we stand on Russian aggression because they are Russia, after all. whether that aggression is justified in it's present scope or not.
i'm not saying Georgia is entirely free from fault here. (i'm trying with all the media to remain open-minded about this. it's tough) but as long as Russian hardware remains where it normally isn't, you will continue to hear the same rhetoric.
I think we should be informing Russia the Western position on the issue, but for Rice to be talking about 1968? WTF? These are our diplomats? Shiiiiiit, we're ed...
Russia surely isn't innocent of deposing Czechoslovakia's sovereignty, but the USA certainly is no angel either, and to talk down to Russia like that, will just inflame tensions. Russian's are a proud people, ruled by powerful proud politicians who'll tell us to off without a second though. Hell, Medvedev used curse words when referring to Georgia's president. If Rice wants to play a war of words, that's one game she'll lose, and gain NOTHING from it..
Q5echo
quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Perhaps during the Cold War. But Russia is no longer the Soviet Union.
but you don't see any similarities here with Soviet hard power?
quote:
If Rice wants to play a war of words, that's one game she'll lose, and gain NOTHING from it..
there is no losing when defending democracy with words or condemning aggression against democracy with words. we expect only the basics with Russia right now. and that is an honoring of their word and guarantees of no further aggression.
we are at a critical time right now in Georgia with this cease-fire and these are not the only words being communicated with Russia. youre only hearing the words that must be said for the faithfull on both sides needing to hear. the audience so to speak. there is much more back-channel and closed door diplomacy going on than you may realize. i have no doubt that the State Dept. is telling Moscow what they're going to say publicly before they say it publicly
