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Escalating situation in (country of) Georgia (pg. 9)
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| Q5echo |
| quote: | Originally posted by guerra-monstru
Ever heard of the Caucasus mountains? They divide Russia and Georgia;)
Plus, many more mountain ranges. Georgia is considered to be one of the best ski destinations, and the best part is that most people do not know that. |
right the Caucuses. duh. i'm usually pretty good at geography.
yeah the Russians have their hands full fo sho |
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| Krypton |
| quote: | Originally posted by Q5echo
right the Caucuses. duh. i'm usually pretty good at geography.
yeah the Russians have their hands full fo sho |
Chechnya gave them hell. Georgia could do much more.. |
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| guerra-monstru |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Chechnya gave them hell. Georgia could do much more.. |
...I hope so. But the Russian navy is going to attack from the sea and its a lot easier for them to do so. Than it was attacking Chechnya by the sea. |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by guerra-monstru
That sounds just like Russia. The Georgians bombed the tunnel which the Russians used to transport their men in. There were only two ways in to S. Ossetia, and Georgia has successfully secured both routes in. Now the Russians are going to have to use the road which is going to get exciting to hear about. There will be more blood whenever the volgograd army arrives. |
Hm..The capital of S. Ossetia is right down near the border with mainland Georgia. So if there was recent fighting inside the capital itself, how could Georgia block the way from Russia into Ossetia that's some 50km north? That must have been a hell of a subversive action. Where did you read that anyway? Either way, a lot of russian tanks are already in Tskhinavli, the fleet is closing in, and the russian air force is free to fly over the Caucasus so I doubt it will do much good in the long run, even if it's true. Might halt the operation by a day or two until the georgian fighters come back from Iraq but that's about it. Latest news I've seen is that Russia dropped a few bombs on Tbilisi airport...http://www.reuters.com/article/news...768040420080810
The fact that georgians won't give back the wounded pilot and perhaps some other soldiers is only escalating tensions even more and giving russians a valid reason to pursue their offensive deeper into georgian territory. Not a good strategy IMO.
Ukraine will probably not do anything in this conflict but brag and complain considering that some 40% of their population are strong russian supporters. Any sort of aggressive foreign policy might cause severe internal instability for them.
As for Abkhazia, they have 170000 people. Georgia as a whole, including SO and Abkhazia has some 4.5 million. Not really huge numbers either way. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by palm
its good for the world tho but has Abhazia any large forces at all? How many lives there, cant be many? are russia gonna "protect" them as they do in South Ossetia |
Abkhazia and South Ossetia are different on many levels. The most important one - Abkhazia does not want to become part of Russia. It only wants independence. It has much more powerful forces than South Ossetia, including its own artillery, planes, missiles, tanks. South Ossetia's armed forces resemble more of a militia, not an army. Abkhazia's armed forces have about 2,000-4,000 troops by most estimates. All-out mobilization can bring up some more, I suppose. Abkhazia's terrain is more mountanous as well, excellent for prolonged guerilla warfare. Abkhazian troops have bigger experience fighting the Georgians, I believe.
South Ossetia bore the bigger threat to Georgian territorial integrity since it wants to rejoin North Ossetia. |
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| Magnetonium |
Here is a good summary.
http://russiatoday.ru/news/news/28676
| quote: |
Experts disagree over Georgia-Ossetia conflict
Political analysts and experts from Russia and abroad give their opinions on the armed conflict between Georgia and its breakaway republic of South Ossetia.
#1. ‘US is behind Georgia's military build-up’
The U.S. is responsible for the militarisation of Georgia, providing it with finance and weapons, says Chairman of the Russia's State Duma Security Committee Vladimir Vasilyev.
“Georgia could have used the years of Saakashvili's presidency in different ways - to build up the economy, to develop the infrastructure, to solve social issues both in South Ossetia, Abkhazia and the whole state. Instead, the Georgian leadership with president Saakashvili undertook consistent steps to increase its military budget from $US 30 million to $US 1 billion - Georgia was preparing for a military action,” Vasilyev also says.
#2. ‘It’s Russia vs the West’
The military actions in South Ossetia are not just a confrontation between Georgia and its breakaway republic, says Viktor Mizin, a political analyst from the Institute of Strategic Assessment in Moscow.
“What we see here is not just a confrontation of minor republics but probably the confrontation between, I am sorry to say that, Moscow and the entire West because now Russia is basically protecting its clients and its own citizens. Up to 80 per cent of South Ossetian population have Russian passports,” Mizin says.
#3. ‘EU too weak in the Caucasus to help’
Aleksandr Rahr from the German Council on Foreign Policy says the EU is shocked about what's happening but does not have the means to solve the conflict.
“German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier was trying to solve the Abkhazian conflict. He proposed money to be allocated in the West in order to rebuild the infrastructure of this separatist republic but it didn’t work because sides do not accept European mediators any more. That’s because the EU is politically too weak in the Caucasus. The EU has no real economic interests in the region and it has no armed forces there. It failed in the past 16 years to develop some kind of co-operation with Russia and Georgia, or to join the peacekeeping missions in the region,” says Rahr.
#4. ‘It’s an attack against Russia’
Aleksandr Pikaev, a political analyst from the Committee of Scientists for Global Security, says since Russian peacekeepers were killed in Georgia’s attack against South Ossetia, it is an attack against Russia as well.
“Several Russian peacekeepers have been killed and that has greatly increased the stakes in the conflict because, a few weeks ago, President Medvedev personally called Mikhail Saakashvili and asked him to refrain from using force against Russian peacekeepers, and the worst has happened. The Georgians killed Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia – and it is an attack not only against South Ossetia. It’s an attack against Russia,” Pikaev said.
#5. ‘There is profound mistrust between the sides’
Andrey Kortunov from New Eurasia Foundation told RT that it will be very difficult to restore trust between the two sides.
“Militarily the balance of powers is quite clear. Russia is predominant and Georgia is not in a position to challenge Russian might. But the question is about the politics behind it and the big uncertainty is whether Georgia is able to present itself as a victim and not as an aggressor. I think this conflict will be with us for quite a time. There is a very profound sense of mistrust on both sides and I think it would be extremely difficult to restore the situation that we had a couple of days ago,” Kortunov said.
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Jesus Murphey. Look at all this Russophobia, its retarted - its easy to dismiss the plight of the Ossetian people:
http://www.president.lt/en/news.full/9475
| quote: |
Joint Declaration of Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian and Polish Presidents on the situation in Georgia
09.08.2008
We, the leaders of the former captive nations from Eastern Europe and current members of the European Union and NATO– Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland – are extremely concerned about the actions of the Russian Federation against Georgia.
We strongly condemn the actions by the Russian military forces against the sovereign and independent country of Georgia.
Following the unilateral military actions of the Russian military forces, we will use all means available to us as Presidents to ensure that aggression against a small country in Europe will not be passed over in silence or with meaningless statements equating the victims with the victimizers. To this end we intend to urge our governments to take the following positions in discussions and to raise these concerns in the European Union and the North Atlantic Council:
- Can the current Russian authorities be called adequate strategic partners of the EU;
- Can the family of European democratic countries pursue a mutually beneficial dialogue with a country that uses heavy military armour against an independent country;
- It is pointless to continue a “visa facilitation” program with a country that does not meet even the minimal requirements set by the EU and which uses visa facilitation to issue Russian Federation passports to foreigners and then abuses this EU given privilege to claim intervention rights such as "we are protecting Russian citizens" in South Ossetia.
- The actions of the Russian Federation in Georgia should influence the talks with the Russian Federation, including negotiations on the new Partnership and Cooperation Agreement.
We underline the obvious bankruptcy of Russian “peacekeeping operations” in its immediate neighbourhood. The Russian Federation has overstepped a red-line in keeping the peace and stability in the conflict zone and in protecting Russian citizens outside its own borders.
The EU and NATO must take the initiative and stand-up against the spread of imperialist and revisionist policy in the East of Europe. New international peacekeeping forces should be created as the current setting proved to be ineffective.
We regret that not granting of the NATO’s Membership Action Plan (MAP) to Georgia was seen as a green light for agression in the region.
We believe that the EU and NATO as the key organizations for European and Transatlantic stability and security should play a leading and crucial role in securing freedom, security and prosperity of countries not only in the EU but also in the neighboring European area.
It a litmus-test for the credibility of the EU and NATO to solve the conflict in its immediate neighborhood and to prove for all EU and NATO members, aspirant countries and democratic partners that it is worth being members and partners of these organizations.
This Declaration is open for the accession by the leaders of other democratic countries.
President of the Republic of Estonia Toomas Hendrik Ilves
President of the Republic of Latvia Valdis Zatlers
President of the Republic of Lithuania Valdas Adamkus
President of the Republic of Poland Lech Kaczyñski
Press Service of the President
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| thanks for all those great articles guys. |
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| Magnetonium |
Oh shoot! Hot update - Abkhazia has launched a military attack on the upper Kodori Gorge (within Abkhazia) to push out the Georgian forces which invaded that area in 2006 and when they did so in 2006 they violated the peace treaty of the 1990s signed between the separatists and Tbilisi. Allegedly Russian airforce is bombing Georgian targets in the same gorge, but Abkhazian officials claim that it is their planes who are doing the bombings. No reports yet if Abkhazian ground troops have entered the upper Kodori Gorge.
There are also conflicting reports that Abkhazian rockets struck Georgian military targets in Western Georgia. :eek:
(Russian language article)
http://lenta.ru/news/2008/08/09/bagapsh/
ALL-OUT WAR, BITCHEZ!
:disbelief :eyespop: |
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| aNYthing |
So, imagine this situation:
Vermont decides to declare itself independent. US says "ummm. yeah, right". Vermont than asks Canada to consider it as part of its' territory, claiming that it never really became a part of US. Canada, then, decides to send its "peace keepers", saying that it has a large number of canadian citizens in the state that it needs to protect. The Canadian "peacekeepers" arrive with heavy artillery and tanks to the state.
I'm curious, how do you think US would react and what would happen if the same situation was unfolding, using territories and countries listed above. Now, consider that unlike Canada and US, Russian-Georgian relations have been very agressive over the last two years.
I think Russians are trying to re-establish the soviet union and want to do a bit of a sabre-rattling to show the west that:
a) russia is back under new management
b) you for serbia, kosovo, oh and that anti-nuke radar in czech republic
c) we're the big bully in the region and if we want to, we'll you up.
russians - I hope they suffer heavy casualties, more than in afganistan. I hope russian caskets flow like a chain from georgia to russia. RUSSIANS PERIOD. ing hole of a country, I hope they all die of ing throat cancer, alchoholism, explosive diarehea and aids (all at the same time, starting with Puta Putin)
:whip: :whip: :whip: |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by aNYthing
So, imagine this situation:
Vermont decides to declare itself independent. US says "ummm. yeah, right". Vermont than asks Canada to consider it as part of its' territory, claiming that it never really became a part of US. Canada, then, decides to send its "peace keepers", saying that it has a large number of canadian citizens in the state that it needs to protect. The Canadian "peacekeepers" arrive with heavy artillery and tanks to the state. |
possibly the worst analogy since the end of the cold war. |
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| aNYthing |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
possibly the worst analogy since the end of the cold war. |
like I ing care what u think. lol`:haha: |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by aNYthing
So, imagine this situation:
Vermont decides to declare itself independent. US says "ummm. yeah, right". Vermont than asks Canada to consider it as part of its' territory, claiming that it never really became a part of US. Canada, then, decides to send its "peace keepers", saying that it has a large number of canadian citizens in the state that it needs to protect. The Canadian "peacekeepers" arrive with heavy artillery and tanks to the state.
I'm curious, how do you think US would react and what would happen if the same situation was unfolding, using territories and countries listed above. Now, consider that unlike Canada and US, Russian-Georgian relations have been very agressive over the last two years.
I think Russians are trying to re-establish the soviet union and want to do a bit of a sabre-rattling to show the west that:
a) russia is back under new management
b) you for serbia, kosovo, oh and that anti-nuke radar in czech republic
c) we're the big bully in the region and if we want to, we'll you up.
russians - I hope they suffer heavy casualties, more than in afganistan. I hope russian caskets flow like a chain from georgia to russia. RUSSIANS PERIOD. ing hole of a country, I hope they all die of ing throat cancer, alchoholism, explosive diarehea and aids (all at the same time, starting with Puta Putin)
:whip: :whip: :whip: |
Hmmm you do realize that there is a much bigger picture behind this whole situation right? this is a war between the US and its interests vs.Russia |
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