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Escalating situation in (country of) Georgia (pg. 37)
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
except that kosovo declared independence, AND THEN we recognized their independence. In this case, russia is recognizing as an independent country an area which has not done so itself. This isn't even a subtle distinction. This is like the US declaring today that it recognizes siberia as an independent country. it sounds kind of stupid when it is said that way, right! |
http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1072674.html
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| jerZ07002 |
my bad - i stand corrected. i tried an apparently unsuccessful search of the issue prior to the post. damn google! |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by jerZ07002
my bad - i stand corrected. i tried an apparently unsuccessful search of the issue prior to the post. damn google! |
No problem - this article actually provides a little more context:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...ianovosti01.htm
2006 was the second time they put it to a referendum actually; both times Ossetia voted for independence. The statuses of Ossetia, Abkhazia, Somaliland, Western Sahara, and Nagorno-Karabakh were actually the predominant reason I was against Kosovan independence from the beginning. Kosovo went about independence in all the wrong ways and was rewarded for it, whereas Somaliland and Karabakh have spent decades building a democratic infrastructure and have become largely self-sufficient (notably not Ossetia, though that's more of a security dilemma than anything) while Kosovo just milked a situation of frozen conflict (prolonging it) for political gain. |
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| Magnetonium |
www.rferl.org IS EXTREMELY biased. The bastards claim that Russia is occupying Crimea right now (based on their presence in Sevastopol). I read their article on Russia's possible invasion of Crimea and I couldn't help but scratch my head in disbelief ... they are drawing comparisons to Russian "invasion" of Georgia while having poor comparisons to back it.
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An Emboldened Russia?
A NATO summit in April fudged the question of Ukrainian and Georgian membership, however, with Germany and France reluctant to give a clear signal that the two countries would be accepted. Some say that decision emboldened Russia to strike against Georgia.
In 2004, Ukraine humiliated the architect of a reinvigorated Russia, current Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, with the Orange Revolution
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^^^ WTF, is that called facts or just speculation? Russia attacked Georgia because of NATO threat? Give me a friggin break. How about because Georgians bombed Russian peacekeepers and citizens, with no warning and failure to live up with 1992 ceasefire accord that was mediated by the friggin UN and OSCE!!! And as for Ukraine - the pathetic editor failed to note that couple years later after the Orange Revolution, the same pro-Russian leader won the Ukrainian elections, though coalition didnt form in his favour. |
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| Magnetonium |
I lost faith in the political direction of the Russian Federation.
Moments ago, Russian President Medvedev announced that he is recognizing independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Lunacy. Idiocy. I cant believe it. This is horrible. This is going to be a disaster for Russia. :whip: :whip: :whip: |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
I lost faith in the political direction of the Russian Federation.
Moments ago, Russian President Medvedev announced that he is recognizing independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Lunacy. Idiocy. I cant believe it. This is horrible. This is going to be a disaster for Russia. :whip: :whip: :whip: |
Well, what did you expect? This is really a Pandora's box opened by American recognition of Kosovo. There was a reason why territorial integrity was the paramount policy in the world politics. Now it is shown that ignoring such a policy might ultimately result in dozens of civil wars and free territories which are recognized by some countries and not recognized by others. In a way Russia can use this as a test to see who are its real allies in the world political scene. I suppose some 30 or so countries will recognize the new independent states by the end of the year. I'm pretty sure some smaller countries like Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Syria, and other regimes that are not US friendly might do it pretty soon. Also central asian countries that have good ties to Russia will probably do it. But what I'm really interested about are China and India. If one of those two ultimately get on Russia's side, that might be a major global power shift. Something for history to remember George W Bush by.
Btw, for future comparison, this is how Kosovo stands so far..Judging by dates, there is an obvious slowdown, so the situation won't change much in the near future.
http://www.kosovothanksyou.com/ |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
I lost faith in the political direction of the Russian Federation.
Moments ago, Russian President Medvedev announced that he is recognizing independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Lunacy. Idiocy. I cant believe it. This is horrible. This is going to be a disaster for Russia. :whip: :whip: :whip: |
What do you think about this article man? I found it today and thought you'd find it interesting:
"The Truth About Russia And Georgia":
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archiv...uth-about-1.php |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
I quickly skimmed the article, there's quite a bit of errors.
1. Russian forces entered South Ossetia through Roki tunnel two days after Georgian forces attacked Chinvali, not before. I remember watching it on CNN for one.
2. Macedonia did not get invited to NATO.
3. The UN findings were not conclusive on the question of who shot the Georgian unmanned aircraft down (most likely it was the Russians, but the UN never explicitely said so).
As for the rest of the article, hard to say what's the truth really, unless you've been down there for yourself. But it pretty much sounds exactly like Kosovo and Serbia, especially the smuggler's paradise remarks. Sort of reminds me of this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q__P...feature=related :)
Whatever the case, the Russians most certainly are not angels in this war, but the fact of the matter is that Saakasvili simply wasn't up to this situation. Tank diplomacy simply doesn't work against 100 times stronger foes. |
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| Krypton |
| NATO recognizes Kosovo, Russi recognizes South Ossetia. What's the difference? |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Well, what did you expect? This is really a Pandora's box opened by American recognition of Kosovo. There was a reason why territorial integrity was the paramount policy in the world politics. Now it is shown that ignoring such a policy might ultimately result in dozens of civil wars and free territories which are recognized by some countries and not recognized by others. In a way Russia can use this as a test to see who are its real allies in the world political scene. I suppose some 30 or so countries will recognize the new independent states by the end of the year. I'm pretty sure some smaller countries like Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Syria, and other regimes that are not US friendly might do it pretty soon. Also central asian countries that have good ties to Russia will probably do it. But what I'm really interested about are China and India. If one of those two ultimately get on Russia's side, that might be a major global power shift. Something for history to remember George W Bush by. |
Iam sure China will stand with Russia on this since they have very close ties both military and economicaly.It wasnt that long ago that both counrties were showing off their military powers as allies. |
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
NATO recognizes Kosovo, Russi recognizes South Ossetia. What's the difference? |
I would also like for someone to explain this for me too. |
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