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Escalating situation in (country of) Georgia (pg. 3)
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| Dervish |
This is very complicated. Hence will run and run and run. Meanwhile a lot of people will die. :(
Sad day. |
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Krypton
Though I don't agree with the Georgian invasion, Russia needs to stay out of it. |
Yeah, but if Russia doesn't intervene, who else will? Nato most certainly won't act against Georgia, as it is in the US interest to get the oil rich region out of Russia's hands. And UN will probably decide to act somewhere around year 2015, right after they calm the Darfur region. |
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| Magnetonium |
OK, things are getting out of control on this thread, little bit too much of b-s. First of all, Russia has no interest in South Ossetia, Russia for over a decade has maintained South Ossetia as part of Georgia, refusing to grant South Ossetia independence that it asked. So how did again Russia break Georgia's sovereignity, again? Just like NATO came to Bosnia to keep peace, Russia has SUCCESSFULLY been keeping peace for over 15 years there. Reconciliation was getting closer, but since Saakashvilli came around, things have been gradually deteriorating.
Listen to Saakashvilli speak English in that video you posted. He speaks pretty dam good English, because he spent many years in USA living and getting trained in 1990s to come back and become America's agent in Georgia. And thats when Russia-Georgia relations, obviously, soured.
| quote: | Originally posted by guerra-monstru
read first pg. georgia has a territory that wants to join russia. russia does not want conflict so they are avoiding anything serious until russia got violently attacked by georgia. georgia has the backing of the US and the US has given it weapons more weapons are sure to come. i believe with the help of the us georgia does stand a chance. |
ALL THE PHOTOS you posted, including the tanks, are ALL Georgian military. Look at the English lettering on the front of the first tank in the column - clearly not Russian. The media is WRONG when it said that Russian tanks (those ones) are moving towards Tskhinvali, like seriously, its clear they are Georgian tanks. "AR 141" plates - clearly NOT Russian, as well. Planes, helicopters - not Russian. All these are part of Georgian aggression against a small weak republic, part of yet another genocidal campaign, continuation from the first one in 1920, second one in 1990, and here's the final cleansing? Various reports across Russian media suggest that scores of Ossetian civilians have been murdereded.
Western media is downplaying the conflict, and United Nations refused to even call for immediate end to fighting and lay down all arms by all sides (posted article earlier about that).
Now, please, dont listen to Saakashvilli bull. He is lying at almost everything - most importantly, lying when he said that Russia is bombing Georgia, and that allegedly its the reason they invaded South Ossetia. He was FIRST to ATTACK, BOMB, INVADE South Ossetia, breaking all the past agreements, truce, and best of all, hiding under the Olympics smokescreen.
Russian media reports that 12 peacekeepers have been killed by Georgian forces and over 150 injured. Their barracks, compounds and units have been shelled and shot at. Tskhinvali, the regional capital, has been reduced to rubble and smoke.
Here's an example: NATO was the main force in charge of peacekeeping in former Yugoslavia, and at times it was forced to bomb Serb positions to stop bloodshed and violence from the agressor groups. Well, Russia is the MAIN peacekeeping force in South Ossetia. It has rightfully the same options that NATO had in former Yugoslavia.
So therefore,
So now Russia is obliged, forced, cornered to protect not only its peacekeepers, but its citizens who are trapped in South Ossetia by barbaric and surprise attack by Georgian military. Some Ossetians have chosen to obtain Russian passports in Georgia, you know. Protecting your own citizens is an important job for the government to do. Russia is considering its actions right now, and at this point, just like NATO did in former Yugoslavia, it can and should crack down on Georgian forces and kick some sense into mad and insane Saakashvilli.
What Georgia has done is ridiculous. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
Yeah, but if Russia doesn't intervene, who else will? Nato most certainly won't act against Georgia, as it is in the US interest to get the oil rich region out of Russia's hands. And UN will probably decide to act somewhere around year 2015, right after they calm the Darfur region. |
Exactly, UN vote will be blocked by USA. So Georgia has already been given green light to attack South Ossetia, so they dont worry about Russia because they know they have a massive support of NATO group, thus they attacked. Last year alone Georgia received much of its 1-BILLION dollar defense budget from NATO. American troops trained Georgia's special units, army, received American weapons, etc.
Look - in 1990s, when in the Caucasus wars erupted, NOONE from UN or whomever came to help the victims of those conflicts. Only Russia did. Unfortunately Russia could not stop all the massacres and crimes, like in Abkhazia where some ethnic Georgians were brutally murdered, but IT STOPPED the war. And managed to KEEP those republics WITHIN Georgia.
You know probably already, but it takes many years for peace and good relations to blossom after a bloody war like the Ossettian-Georgian-Abkhazian conflicts in 1990s. More than a decade. But Saakashvilli had little patience to win the hearts and mind of those peoples. Barrel of a gun seems to be an easier and politically more viable option - heck, elections are coming soon in Georgia. |
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| Magnetonium |
HOT! HOT! HOT! Saakashvilli will be declaring MARTIAL LAW across Georgia in a few hours time.
And he brandishes a claim that Russian planes are bombing the whole country, like port of Poti and its infrastructure.
Georgia has claimed it shot down several Russian aircraft - would be nice to see some photos as evidence :)
(note to myself: bombing of Poti - sounds like a huge pile of horse)
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Here's a good vid: note, that as Georgian Ambassador speaks, you see images of Georgia tanks, planes, and Georgian troops (they are speaking Georgian - there is NO Russian speaking in the video) marching towards South Ossetia. As the copters are taking off, to the right you can faintly see a partially folded Georgian flag (red cross on white background) on a mast. Copters are flying north, into South Ossetia. AND, to top it all off, ambassador compares Russia to Nazi Germany of the 1930s!
Video:
http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=88641
| quote: |
Georgian ambassador plea
(02:30) Report
Aug. 8 - The Georgian Ambassador Vasil Sikharulidze to the U.S. calls on international community to pressure Russia to end their military aggression in Georgia.
He compares Russia's actions in South Ossetia to Nazi Germany's invasion of Czechoslovakia in the 1930s.
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| DrUg_Tit0 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Western media is downplaying the conflict, and United Nations refused to even call for immediate end to fighting and lay down all arms by all sides (posted article earlier about that). |
Hey, Croatia as a member of the security council asked both sides to stop the fighting and get back in the mood of the olympic spirit! We're finally being heard of on the global scale. Yay! :)
But let's get back to the serious stuff. Yes, those tanks CNN showed were not russian, they had latin alphabet markings. But let us not be foolish and think that Russia is not sending its tanks in there. They were probably shown just because there was lack of the real footage. I can not speak for whole of western media as I have so far only watched CNN, but I agree with you and I must say that they're really being biased on the issue. I've only heard interviews with Nato leaders or georgian ministers and envoys, not a word from russian diplomats.
Although the russians are most certainly not angels, and although they will probably give a good beating to Georgia, the fact of the matter is that Georgia really started this conflict. Saakasvili can brag all he wants about borderline gunfire, but there's a difference between sporadic shooting and invading a region's capital.
That being said, I really don't see the rationale behind Georgian moves. What did they think, that Russia won't react or that Nato will send their forces in like it did in Kosovo?? There's kind of a little difference in size and importance between Serbia and Russia. I think Saakasvili played a gamble in order to get the upper hand in the conflict while hoping that the russians won't hit him back so hard. Now that he's seen what he's done he realized he'll get screwed and is pleading the west for help. Personally, I think he got in way over his head. |
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| Krypton |
| I amazed by the news coverage here in the states. CNN just broadcast the headline, "Russia invades Georgia"...Corporate propaganda at its best... |
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| guerra-monstru |
| Am I the only one who believes the Georgians will be able to inflict serious damage on any russian forces, which in turn will cause russia to negotiate? |
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| Magnetonium |
I must also add, that even though I am biased, Russia is clearly not an angel, as Tito said - they've quietly let open their borders annd several hundred volunteer fighters from North Ossetia, Abkhazia and Cossacks (ing yeah, my fellow brothers) have entered South Ossetia to do, you know, some fighting. Russia has shown support of Ossetians, and they will do something, as a government. But for now I believe they have not attacked Georgia directly.
BUT, I am still waiting to see some Russian heavy weaponry, like tanks and airplanes to directly attack Georgian forces. I am not saying that its not going to happen - I just dont think it did, yet. |
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| guerra-monstru |
It has!! See the posted pic above. That is a russian bomber attacking Georgian positions. More pics:
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