War clips - RussiaToday is a YouTube user, posting videos on the situation - some of these are biased, from Russia, but in English, so watch the video and consider information, dont assume that its facts, because its media - facts will be confirmed later. Only consider:
Magnetonium
quote:
Originally posted by palm
So Ukraine supports Georgia? Why? ok WW3 everyone, time to sell my apartment. didnt the dude from the future eplained alot of this that ww3 would start at the same day as olympics in beijing? anyone know where to find the thread?
Few years ago, in both Ukraine and Georgia, revolutions happened and pro-NATO anti-Russian leaders came to power, who have been introducing fiercerely anti-Russian programs and agenda. Since, they've established an allliance, called GUAM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUAM). Current member states of this alliance: Georgia, Ukraine, Azerbaijan, Moldova.
So more than half of former Soviet republics are anti-Russian:
Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, Moldavia, Georgia, Azerbaijan. Central Asia is more friendly.
CGRumler
I see that they're thinking about pulling out the Georgia athletic team out of the Olympics.....
Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0
It's really a great thing for the russians. Now that there's this Edwards affair going on, they are free to commit any sort of genocide they want and they can be sure it won't make it to the first page.
genocide???? you mean something like jasenovac???
georgian president is fool. he thinks being america's bus boy will help him?? he tought they can strike first, cry for help and america will come a-runnin'.
this is a direct " you" to states and un for what happened with kosovo. now lets see ANYBODY put sanctions or drop bombs on russia !
how long can you push somebody till they cant take it anymore and push back???
i think we'll find it out now.
long live my Russian brothers and sisters !
Q5echo
quote:
1,500 Reported Killed in Georgia Battle
GORI, Georgia — Russian air attacks over northern Georgia intensified on Saturday morning, striking two apartment buildings in the city of Gori and clogging roads out of the area with fleeing refugees.
Russian authorities said their forces had retaken the South Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali, from Georgian control during the morning hours. They reported that 15 Russian peacekeepers and 1,500 civilians have been killed in the conflict.
Georgian forces shot down 10 Russian combat planes over the last two days, according to Alexander Lomaya, secretary of the Georgian National Security Council.
Shota Utiashvili, an official at the Georgian Interior Ministry, called the attack on Gori a “major escalation,” and said he expected attacks to increase over the course of Saturday. He said some 16 Russian planes were in the air over Georgian territory at any given time on Saturday, four times the number of sorties seen Friday.
In the Georgian capital of Tbilisi, wounded fighters and civilians began to arrive in hospitals, most with shrapnel or mortar wounds. Several dozen names had been posted outside the hospital.
In a news conference, the Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov said Georgian attacks on Russian citizens “amounted to ethnic cleansing.”
Mr. Lavrov said Russian airstrikes targeted military staging grounds. Asked whether Russia is prepared to fight “all-out war” in Georgia, he said: “No. Georgia, I believe, started a war in Southern Ossetia, and we are responsible to keep the peace.”
He said Moscow has been working intensely with foreign leaders, in particular the United States. “We have been appreciative of the American efforts to pacify the hawks in Tbilisi. Apparently these efforts have not succeeded. Quite a number of officials in Washington were really shocked when all this happened.”
The United States and other Western nations, joined by NATO, condemned the violence and demanded a cease-fire. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice went a step further, calling on Russia to withdraw its forces. According to the Associated Press, President George W. Bush in Beijing for the Summer Olympics, said that the Georgia crisis endangered regional peace and urged an end to escalation.
Neither side showed any indication of backing down. Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin of Russia declared that “war has started,” and President Mikheil Saakashvili of Georgia accused Russia of a “well-planned invasion” and mobilized Georgia’s military reserves. There were signs as well of a cyberwarfare campaign, as Georgian government Web sites were crashing intermittently during the day.
Russian military units — including tank, artillery and reconnaissance — arrived in Tskhinvali, the capital of South Ossetia, on Saturday to help Russian peacekeepers there, in response to overnight shelling by Georgian forces, state television in Russia reported, citing the Ministry of Defense. Ground assault aircraft were also mobilized, the Ministry said.
Also on Saturday a senior Georgian official said by telephone that Russian bombers were flying over Georgia and that the presidential offices and residence in Tbilisi had been evacuated. The official added that Georgian forces still had control of Tskhinvali.
By 9:30 a.m. Saturday morning, heavy airstrikes were taking place over Gori, famed as the birthplace of Josef Stalin. Lines of trucks and buses were loaded with uniformed soldiers and reservists — some in tennis shoes, some in military boots.
Explosions could be heard at a distance. . They hit two multi-story apartment buildings, which were engulfed in flames. Chunks of twisted metal were scattered in the street. It was not clear whether nearby military installations had been hit. After the bombing, the streets emptied. Families began to flow out of the city, piling their children and possession into cars.
In Karaleti, a town north of Gori, Ergudzja Sukhitashvili gathered with a few neighbors to watch the airstrikes overhead. The women and children have already evacuated, he said, but he is staying. “Can I go and leave my home?” he asked.
When the men saw that a Russian plane had been hit, they erupted in cheers.
But elsewhere in Georgia, the mood was grim. An elderly man, who gave his name as Truber, emerged from Tbilisi’s Republican hospital, where he had found his injured son. He said he had not slept in three days, and took no joy in finding his son. “He is alive, but others are dying,” he said. “We are all guilty for this war. I am personally guilty.”
The escalation risked igniting a renewed and sustained conflict in the Caucasus region, an important conduit for the flow of oil from the Caspian Sea to world markets and an area where conflict has flared for years along Russia’s borders, most recently in Chechnya.
The military incursion into Georgia marked a fresh sign of Kremlin confidence and resolve, and also provided a test of the capacities of the Russian military, which Mr. Putin had tried to modernize and re-equip during his two presidential terms.
Frictions between Georgia and South Ossetia, which has declared de facto independence, have simmered for years, but intensified when Mr. Saakashvili came to power in Georgia and made national unification a centerpiece of his agenda. Mr. Saakashvili, a close American ally who has sought NATO membership for Georgia, is loathed at the Kremlin in part because he had positioned himself as a spokesman for democracy movements and alignment with the West.
Earlier this year Russia announced that it was expanding support for the separatist regions. Georgia labeled the new support an act of annexation.
The conflict in Georgia also appeared to suggest the limits of the power of President Dmitri A. Medvedev, Mr. Putin’s hand-picked successor. During the day, it was Mr. Putin’s stern statements from China, where he was visiting the opening of the Olympic Games, that appeared to define Russia’s position.
But Mr. Medvedev made a public statement as well, making it unclear who was directing Russia’s military operations. Officially, that authority rests with Mr. Medvedev, and foreign policy is outside Mr. Putin’s portfolio.
“The war in Ossetia instantly showed the idiocy of our state management,” said a commentator on the liberal radio station, Ekho Moskvy. “Who is in charge — Putin or Medvedev?”
The war between Georgia and South Ossetia, until recently labeled a “frozen conflict,” stretches back to the early 1990s, when South Ossetia and another separatist region, Abkhazia, gained de facto independence from Georgia after the collapse of the Soviet Union. The region settled into a tenuous peace monitored by Russian peacekeepers, but frictions with Georgia increased sharply in 2004, when Mr. Saakashvili was elected.
Reports conflicted throughout Friday about whether Georgian or Russian forces had won control of Tskhinvali, the capital of the mountainous rebel province. It was unclear late on Friday whether ground combat had taken place between Russian and Georgian soldiers, or had been limited to fighting between separatists and Georgian forces.
Marat Kulakhmetov, commander of Russian peacekeeping forces in Tskhinvali, said early on Saturday that South Ossetian separatists still held most of the city and that Georgian forces were only present on its southern edge.
That report aligned with a statement by Georgia’s ambassador to the United Nations, Irakli Alasania, who said that Georgian military units held eight villages at the capital’s edge. Georgian officials asserted that Russian warplanes had attacked Georgian forces and civilians in Tskhinvali, and that airports in four Georgian cities had been hit.
Shota Utiashvili, an official at the Georgian Interior Ministry, said they included the Vaziany military base outside of Tbilisi, the Georgian capital, a military base in Marneuli, and airports in the cities of Delisi and Kutaisi.
“We are under massive attack,” he said.
Late in the night, George Arveladze, an adviser to Mr. Saakashvili, said that Russian planes had bombed the commercial seaport of Poti, where one worker was missing and several others were wounded. Poti is an export point for oil from the Caspian Sea; Mr. Arveladze said the initial reports indicated that the oil terminal had not been struck.
Eduard Kokoity, the president of South Ossetia, said in a statement on a government Web site that hundreds of civilians had been killed in fighting in the capital. Russian peacekeepers stationed in South Ossetia said that 12 peacekeeping soldiers were killed Friday and that 50 were wounded. The claims of casualties by all sides could not be independently verified.
Analysts said that either Georgia or Russia could be trying to seize an opportune moment — with world leaders focused on the start of the 2008 Olympics this week — to reclaim the territory, and to settle the dispute before a new American presidential administration comes to office.
Richard C. Holbrooke, the former American ambassador to the United Nations, said that Russia’s aims were clear. “They have two goals,” he said. “To do a creeping annexation of South Ossetia and Abkhazia and, secondly, to overthrow Saakashvili, who is a tremendous thorn in their side.”
A spokesman for Mr. Medvedev declined to comment.
The United States State Department issued a press release late Friday saying that John D. Negroponte, the deputy secretary of state, had summoned the Russian chargé d’affairs to press for a de-escalation of force. “We deplore today’s Russian attacks by strategic bombers and missiles, which are threatening civilian lives,” the statement said.
Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany issued a statement calling on both sides “to halt the use of force immediately.” Germany has taken a leading role in trying to ease the tensions over Abkhazia.
The trigger for the fresh escalation began last weekend, when South Ossetia accused Georgia of firing mortars into the enclave after six Georgian policemen were killed in the border area by a roadside bomb. As tensions grew, South Ossetia began sending women and children out of the enclave. The refugee crisis intensified Friday as relief groups said thousands of refugees, mostly women and children, were streaming across the border into the North Caucasus city of Vladikavkaz in Russia.
Early on Friday, Russia’s Channel One television showed Russian tanks entering South Ossetia and reported that two battalions reinforced by tanks and armored personnel carriers were approaching its capital.
At the United Nations on Friday, diplomats continued to wrangle over the text of a statement after attempts to agree to compromise language collapsed Friday afternoon, after nearly three hours of consultations.
The Russians, who had called the emergency session, proposed a short, three-paragraph statement that expressed concern about the escalating violence, and singled out Georgia and South Ossetia as needing to cease hostilities and return to the negotiating table.
But one phrase calling on all parties to “renounce the use of force” met with opposition, particularly from the United States, France and Britain. The three countries argued that the statement was unbalanced, one European diplomat said, because that language would have undermined Georgia’s ability to defend itself. Belgium, which holds the rotating presidency of the Security Council this month, circulated a revised draft calling for an immediate cessation of hostility and for “all parties” to return to the negotiating table. By dropping the specific reference to Georgia and South Ossetia, the compromise statement would also encompass Russia.
The Security Council was scheduled to meet Saturday to resume deliberations. China, in its statement during the early morning debate, had asked for a traditional cease-fire out of respect for the opening of the Olympics.
There are over 2,000 American citizens in Georgia, Pentagon officials said. Among them are about 130 trainers — mostly American military personnel but with about 30 Defense Department civilians —assisting the Georgian military with preparations for deployments to Iraq.
The American military was taking no actions regarding the outbreak of violence, according to Pentagon and military officials. While there has been some contact with the Georgian authorities, the Defense Department had received no requests for assistance, the officials said.
Michael Schwirtz reported from Gori, and Anne Barnard from Moscow. Reporting was contributed by Andrew E. Kramer and Ellen Barry from Moscow, Nicholas Kulish from Berlin, Neil MacFarquhar from the United Nations, and Thom Shanker from Washington.
^^^ Thats a pretty dam conservative article. Too bad they dont show the photos of Tskhinvali, annihilated by Georgian forces. 1500 dead civilians - South Ossetians.
"Russian invasion of Georgia" is quite the statement. I dont recall reading the same titles about NATO ("NATO invasion of Yugoslavia"?) when it bombed Yugoslavia to stop the Milosevic. Saakashvilli is insane by sending troops on a vicious and surprise attack to murder Ossetian civilians, AND Russian peacekeepers. Do we see some hypocrisy here?
By looking at pictures like these, you can tell that Saakashvilli is lying when he said that Tskhinvali is under Georgian control:
I hope this madness ends soon. People are dying as we speak, and Georgian forces are planning more attacks on South Ossetia. And Abkhazia is even alarmed too. South Ossetia today - Abkhazia tomorrow? Both sides need to stop fighting and withdraw to the pre-war positions and continue talks. Conflict will never resolve this Ossetian struggle. Conflicts rarely resolve issues like these (ethnic) ...
-------------------
EDIT: This is not the first time Georgians have launched murderous campaigns against Ossetians, as I said before (first in 1920, second in early 1990s). For the last fourteen years there has been a lot of reconciliation happening, and Ossetians were finally getting into the new reality and being able to live in peace within Georgia, though not under direct Tbilisi control. It takes long time to heal scars.
BUT, this conflict, I believe, has placed an irreversible scar into the Georgian-Ossetian conflict and Ossetians will never again trust Georgia. The only way now would be for Ossetians to be incorporated into Russian Federation, as independence will not be accepted even by Russia. That way they will be protected against any further Georgian military attacks or campaigning, a great deterrent to Tbilisi from attacking any other minorities, like Abkhazia. Then Georgia will finally be forced to make peace with Abkhazia and keep them within Georgia, because it will know that bloodshed will only cause problems. Thats my two cents.
Magnetonium
Here's the kind of articles coming out of many media outlets, particularly in USA, Canada, Europe.
Stopping Russia
The U.S. and its allies must unite against Moscow's war on Georgia.
Saturday, August 9, 2008; Page A14
THE OUTBREAK of fighting between Russia and the former Soviet republic of Georgia was sudden but not surprising. Conflict has been brewing between Moscow and its tiny, pro-Western neighbor for months. The flashpoints are two breakaway Georgian provinces, Abkhazia and South Ossetia -- the latter being the scene of the latest fighting. The skirmishing and shelling around Georgian villages that prompted Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili to launch an offensive against the South Ossetian capital, Tskhinvali, may or may not have been a deliberate Russian provocation, to which Russia's tank and air assault was the inevitable follow-up.
Russian military probes, always denied b y Moscow, have been frequent in recent years. But certainly the deeper source of tension between the two countries is Russia's insistence on maintaining hegemony in the Caucasus. Georgia's democratically elected government has accepted U.S. military and economic aid, supported the mission in Iraq and pursued NATO membership. Moscow will not tolerate such independence -- even by a relatively poor country of just 4.6 million people.
At its summit in Bucharest, Romania, in April, NATO offered Georgia eventual membership. This was not the more concrete promise that Georgia and the Bush administration had wanted. But Tbilisi and Washington settled for less in deference to European NATO members who wanted to avoid inflaming Russia. It didn't work, because Moscow responded by increasing its ties to Abkhazia and South Ossetia, including by beefing up the "peacekeeping" forces it maintains in both regions under the settlement that concluded Moscow-backed secessionist wars in the early 1990s. Even before these latest maneuvers, Russia had issued passports to most inhabitants of the two breakaway regions, which is why it claims to be defending its own people now.
It's doubtful, though not unthinkable, that Russia plans to conquer all of Georgia. But its objectives are no less cynical for that. Simply by keeping the country in a constant state of territorial division and conflict, it hopes to show NATO that Georgia is too unstable for membership -- thus giving Georgia no choice but to submit to Moscow's "influence." Probably Russia intends to administer a quick military "punishment" (as Russian President Dmitry Medvedev described Moscow's war aim) to Mr. Saakashvili, and then restore some version of the unstable status quo ante.
This is a grave challenge to the United States and Europe. Ideally, the U.N. Security Council would step in, authorizing a genuine peacekeeping force to replace the Russian one that has turned into a de facto occupation of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. But a Russian veto rules that out. Thus, the United States and its NATO allies must together impose a price on Russia if it does not promptly change course.
The principles at stake, including sovereignty and territorial integrity, apply well beyond the Caucasus. To abandon Georgia and its fragile democratic Rose Revolution would send a terrible signal to other former Soviet and Warsaw Pact republics that to Moscow's dismay have achieved or are working toward democracy and fully independent foreign policies. The West has made that sort of mistake before and must not do so again.
guerra-monstru
quote:
Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty
genocide???? you mean something like jasenovac???
georgian president is fool. he thinks being america's bus boy will help him?? he tought they can strike first, cry for help and america will come a-runnin'.
this is a direct " you" to states and un for what happened with kosovo. now lets see ANYBODY put sanctions or drop bombs on russia !
how long can you push somebody till they cant take it anymore and push back???
i think we'll find it out now.
long live my Russian brothers and sisters !
Right, go Russia, because they love you too!!! Russia is sending its navy and large army groups to Georgia. Its like a David vs Goliath except Georgia has no arms to use for its weapons(bad example). Well my point is that Russia is going to destroy everything in Georgia and how will that be fair to the Georgians?
Magnetonium
AND one more important thing. If you have watched any of the video clips, you probably have noticed Saakashvilli sitting beside the European Union flag.
First of all, Georgia is not a member of EU. Second of all, he is making some serious speeches and accusations, and is he representing the EU while he is at it? Usually when leaders make important speeches or when they appear on the media, they show their flag(s) and speak for those symbolic representatives, like most normal political speeches, if you know what I mean. I wonder what EU has to say about this.
Magnetonium
quote:
Originally posted by CGRumler
I see that they're thinking about pulling out the Georgia athletic team out of the Olympics.....
LMAO! Can't believe I almost missed this. You know why they think about pulling out their team? Because they need every single able-bodied person to fight the Russians! :stongue: Yes, its a joke, but it has some truth to it, too ... :stongue:
Kapedano
quote:
Originally posted by palm
i assume china doesnt like this at all, and may soon get involved somehow, as it will drown the olympics on the news instead of hiding behind as planned. i doubt we'll make it to 21st of dec 2012 to see the beatiful planet coming to save us from all.
