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President of Poland and other high-ranking officials killed in plane crash (pg. 12)
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by LightsOut
Soviet deaths were so high because Stalin had no value for life, including that of his own people. Look at the Battle of Berlin, with the war essentially over and Berlin surrounded, Stalin sacrificed up to 5 thousand of his men to take the Reichstag, where the last couple hundred Waffen SS were holed up. He was obsessed with getting a picture of the Soviet Flag flying over Berlin from that building, and instead of just bombing it and moving on, ordered division after division to take take it at whatever cost...
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yeah, i was going to say that stalin probably caused more of the deaths of the soviets then was required. i don't know much about it but i have a feeling that he was using the war to cleanse some more people in his own country and then blame it on the war. that guy was pure evil. |
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| Xavier Moriarty |
| quote: | Originally posted by LightsOut
Having said that, I don't think any country should claim responsibility for saving Europe from the Third Reich, everyone played their part... |
cmon man, thats obvious. but go through the last couple of pages and re-read some of the posts.
how the can anybody compare Russia to Germany???
| quote: | | If the Germans have to still pay renumerations, why doesn't Russia? |
what the ???? |
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| StereoPrincess |
| I personally think that WWII didn't end for Poland in 1945. The world wasn't saved from their perspective. Does that make sense? |
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| Xavier Moriarty |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
i don't know much about it but i have a feeling that he was using the war to cleanse some more people in his own country and then blame it on the war. |
jesus christ what are you talking about????
| quote: | | that guy was pure evil. |
was he worse than hitler??? |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
It really saddens me to see attempts to undermine the Soviets' role in WW2 - and it makes me angry too. My grandpa was a war veteran who was severely injured and went through life with a piece of a bullet in him that couldn't be removed. I have heard stories from him first-hand, no Wikipedia will ever tell me that.
The nature of a war is that there always were and always will be war casualties, horrible things happening to peaceful civilians and so on. But I will never ignore the fact what the Soviets and other allied forces did for the world as we know today. |
honey, you don't want to compare family war stories with me. honestly.
EDIT: family war stories and even worse post war stories. |
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| Vanos |
| quote: | | Having said that, I don't think any country should claim responsibility for saving Europe from the Third Reich, everyone played their part... |
I think your comment is a little bit out of context with mine. Going back to my previous point ill mention that it is all about strategic interests and its not like Soviet Union was "saving" Europe from someone in any case, what is was doing is defending itself and promoting its own interests. The latest comment just meant that in my opinion from purely logical point of view, if Germany defeated Russia, lets say as Hitler planned with his strategy in 1941. It would be very likely that the whole structure of the world today would be different. If he would quickly invade Russia, he would then very quickly invade UK and would have enormous geoploitical power (controlling most of eurasia) and troops free to use for other goals such as fighting off US alongside Japanese and for example furthering influence in Africa - which would likely result in a very different world today - to which extent and how it would be different we do not know but i would argue that one of the likely outcomes of Russian defeat - especially in 41 but potentially 42 also would be that today Europe would be under German control ). |
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| LightsOut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty
cmon man, thats obvious. but go through the last couple of pages and re-read some of the posts.
how the can anybody compare Russia to Germany???
what the ???? |
Well thats what I was arguing, the notion that Russia saved Europe, I'm glad we're on the same page then...
I've never considered any parallels between Russia and Germany before, but it is an interesting idea that I'm sure would spur heavy debate.
More specifically, Hitler v. Stalin. Who's the lesser of two evils? I won't even touch that right now but be me guest :tongue2 lol |
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty
was he worse than hitler??? |
Stalin has 40mm-60mm deaths on his tally. |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by LightsOut
More specifically, Hitler v. Stalin. Who's the lesser of two evils? I won't even touch that right now but be me guest :tongue2 lol |
lol. yup, that's something we will never know. thank God! |
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| Xavier Moriarty |
| are you guys serious or are you just trying to with me??? i dont get it. |
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| LightsOut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vanos
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Fair enough, I absolutely took it in a different context. And your absolutely right, If Russia fell things would have ended dramatically different. In that situation, I can only assume all allied hopes would have fallen on America...npw thats scary. |
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| Xavier Moriarty |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
Stalin has 40mm-60mm deaths on his tally. |
whats your source on that? also, by that source, what was hitler's "tally"??? |
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