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President of Poland and other high-ranking officials killed in plane crash (pg. 21)
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| yankeeBaby |
| quote: | Originally posted by smuncky
:toocool: |
what kinda sick party is this!?!:whip: ;)
Gera; I am not getting involved in you and margs specific commentary, but one thing that stuck out to me was this (and tell me if I am reading into this wrong, please):
"I didn't read anywhere mentioning that Poland does does not trust Russia as a country in the investigation...."
Without actually making an opinion about the actual issue, I have to say that one must be careful when making statements like this. We dont have have to read something for it to necessarily be true.
The Polish mistrust (which I dont much about I am just making a point here...) may be a personal conversation or an opinion amongst some of its people, but doesnt necessarily have to be on the news.
For instance, if someone were to tell me that the American news/books/media/etc always reflected my OWN opinions and personal conversations, I would tell them that they are obviously living under a rock to believe such generalities. (and even more so, since a lot of media can be skewed and have an agenda, I would have to be highly opposed to making such an assumption....maybe I read what you wrote wrong, but if I didnt, then please becareful of making such statments, as they are really dangerous, and if often the source of completely misunderstanding a person or a group as a whole..... |
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| evil_cookie |
| quote: | Originally posted by geroin
care to elaborate, buddy? |
I'm not a history textbook, nor do I have any interest in engaging in a lengthy online discussion. That said, if you're serious about reading up on this, I will point you in the right direction. Start by reading works by Charles B. MacDonald & Stephen Ambrose--both greatly respected historians who should put some things into perspective for you. |
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| LightsOut |
| quote: | | Originally posted by yankeeBaby |
I think its pretty safe to say that amongst some poles, especially older generations, their is absolutely a feeling of distrust/need to exercise caution towards Russia, stemming from the decades of communist rule and oppression that was forced onto them. It's the same in Germany and I'm sure other former satellite territories, and perhaps rightfully so.
I think we can all agree that the cold war and iron curtain aren't some of Russia's finest hours, same with West. However I do not think this feeling of caution and uncertainty towards Russia is felt towards the Russian population, just their Foreign Policy, and based on a desire for Poland to remain politically sovereign from outside influence. Who can blame them. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
they are very Slavic looking :) could pass for any of the Slavic nationalities
the women look more European though (and quite young looking too!) |
One of those guys looked like Steven Harper. Must be the haircut. |
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| Kamka |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
lol right
Japan was a huge threat
considering that if the Japanese didn't attack, the Americans wouldn't mobilize
please continue :) |
Officially, the US had neutrality, but I heard that they were secretly looking for a pretext to join the war, so they used certain tactics to provoke Japan into the Pearl Harbour attack; so that afterwards they could then declare war on Japan and join the Allies.
I can't vouch for 100% accuracy of this claim, but I read or heard about this theory a few times before, so just thought I'll point it out.
Japan was a huge threat to the countries in south-east Asia; just read about some of the atrocities they did in that region... |
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| StereoPrincess |
grrr. honestly gera. this is ing lame to even discuss in this thread. so ing lame.
| quote: | Originally posted by geroin
we didn't jump on your comments, we responded to your comments because it is a message board. I'm not sure why you are getting angry since you started this convo in the first place.. |
No.
I didn't start the thread.
I also wasn't the first person to mention Russian-Polish relations being strained.
I didn't mention a conspiracy.
| quote: | | you could have a different view of the world, that's completely fine but you cannot ignore the historical facts that took place. |
i know the historical facts. like someone else said in the thread. stalin and hitler were in bed together until hitler decided to try and grab some soviet land. Soviets would have been perfectly happy with not participating until that happened. don't say that soviet army was helping for the good of the world and to save everyone. it just happened that way. your family was fighting in the war to protect Soviet land and that is very commendable and veterans of all wars should be respected.
| quote: | | I didn't read anywhere mentioning that Poland does does not trust Russia as a country in the investigation, what i did read is that Poland and Russia are jointly working on the investigation. |
I didn't write that they don't trust them. I wanted to explain why they MAY not trust them and that I don't agree that Putin should "head the investigation". I am glad that both countries are working together. They better be.
There is a huge past of " ups".
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/co...icle7095796.ece
| quote: | | i lived there too, and i had both grandma and grandpa on both sides participate in the war, 2 of them were fighting in stalingrad and one survived because he got shot in the leg, that's what saved his life. I take like this personal when people leave comments like "Who the hell does Russia think that they saved us??" It's soviet union (USSR) not russia first of all, second of all these veterans fought for our lives, regardless if stalin was right or wrong. We should give these people some respect. If not for them (and i mean all veterans) me, you and many others would not be alive today. |
I thought we weren't going to do war stories. But trust me aggression from both the Nazi's and Soviets have affected my family personally.
I guess it's my fault as to what happened so I will apologize for whatever I did personally to you in the war in the 1940s right now.
I will not argue with the point anymore about Russia saving the world because it's like talking to a wall. Even others have admitted that it was a full world effort. And even some said that Hitler lost it himself. But you skip over those posts and the posts of the people that agree that USA saved the world and focus only on what I wrote.
even more off topic. grrrr. |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kamka
Officially, the US had neutrality, but I heard that they were secretly looking for a pretext to join the war, so they used certain tactics to provoke Japan into the Pearl Harbour attack; so that afterwards they could then declare war on Japan and join the Allies.
I can't vouch for 100% accuracy of this claim, but I read or heard about this theory a few times before, so just thought I'll point it out.
Japan was a huge threat to the countries in south-east Asia; just read about some of the atrocities they did in that region... |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
lol right
Japan was a huge threat
considering that if the Japanese didn't attack, the Americans wouldn't mobilize
please continue :) |
This discussion is just not going to stay on Poland. I can barely resist!!! :crazy:
Lets just say, couple years ago I read a great book called Day Of Deceit. |
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| VDub |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
lol right
Japan was a huge threat
considering that if the Japanese didn't attack, the Americans wouldn't mobilize
please continue :) |
the Japanese not a threat???
They possessed the ENTIRE Pacific rim!!!
The US single handedly took it back...
As for the European effort? I mentioned Italy but don't forget about N Africa. And how about the Battle of the Bulge? Vimy Ridge? Who do you think it was the bombed and crippled all of Germany's industrial areas? US B-17's...
And technically, since the war in Europe ended 3 months before Japan surrendered to the American's, the US did in fact end the war...
BUT WHO FIVES A ????
We were all on the same team!!!! |
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| LightsOut |
| quote: | Originally posted by VDub
Vimy Ridge?
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....that would be WW1...
lol |
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| yankeeBaby |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
lol right
Japan was a huge threat |
im confused, are you saying japan wasnt a threat?? |
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| VDub |
| quote: | Originally posted by LightsOut
....that would be WW1...
lol |
Oh yah..
Sorry...
Brainfart.. |
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| evil_cookie |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
lol right
Japan was a huge threat
considering that if the Japanese didn't attack, the Americans wouldn't mobilize
please continue :) |
Considered by who? Where is your source for this claim?
Point me to one historian who claims,categorically as you do, that if Japan didn't attack, then America would not have joined the war. |
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