|
President of Poland and other high-ranking officials killed in plane crash (pg. 30)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| love_child |
| All you guys arguing sound like a bunch of wankers. Everytime a tragedy happens people always have to bring other into it. |
|
|
| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
I don't remember anyone saying that life in Eastern Europe is much better than over here. At least I didn't say so. Is that the best argument you have against our discussion? |
+1
All of us have our own reasons for leaving the motherland - doesn't mean we have to hate it back home. People leave for all sorts of reasons, but I personally still love it back home. However living there again will be very very hard. |
|
|
| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
However living there again will be very very hard. |
Why? I am jut curious.
Question to not just for Funky but the actual Russians. |
|
|
| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
Why? I am jut curious.
Question to not just for Funky but the actual Russians. |
My mentality and the way I see things around me has changed - I go back home for few weeks to visit my parents, and I see that things aren't really getting better there. Economically, the country is in a hole. With every election, nothing changes - politicians are only there to steal as much govn't money as possible and move to Europe with the whole family. Job-wise I wouldn't have much to chose from - everyone gets married very young there and girls tend to be stay-at-home moms by the age of 20. I really don't get that anymore. I talk with my parents and they sometimes don't even understand where I'm coming from, because the way things are done back at home are so different. But I miss a lot of things about home - my school, all my relatives, the way my town is stunning in spring, I miss russian movies and old cartoons, I miss proper New Years celebrations we get there. It's the small things really - but honestly, I do not want to move back. Life in Canada is so much easier for people of my age, as opposed to back at home. Plus by Ukie standards I'm an old maid, lol. I should have been onto my 2nd kid by now! :) |
|
|
| Magnetonium |
There is no future in Russia. The biggest problem is bureaucracy and corruption. Many of the problems are truly engraved in the psyche of the system, its not typically the people's fault - but the SYSTEM. Its a great country, a beautiful country, but it will take decades and generations to weed out the Old Guard and the communist ways of things. I mean, the kind of people go through there is absolutely ridiculous. Recently there was a huge media storm over the fact that a number of police officers arrest and imprison innocent people just to meet their monthly incarceration quota. Thats ED. |
|
|
| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
There is no future in Russia. The biggest problem is bureaucracy and corruption. Many of the problems are truly engraved in the psyche of the system, its not typically the people's fault - but the SYSTEM. Its a great country, a beautiful country, but it will take decades and generations to weed out the Old Guard and the communist ways of things. I mean, the kind of people go through there is absolutely ridiculous. Recently there was a huge media storm over the fact that a number of police officers arrest and imprison innocent people just to meet their monthly incarceration quota. Thats ED. |
+1 on ALL points
I sometimes go over recent events in Canada with my parents - and they chuckle, sadly. I mean how godawful is the fact that my parents do not trust the banking system back at home? They no longer have bank accounts, all money is kept in cash. They can't even have a proper interest-generating pension account - they withdraw all the money immediately. All because the bank can either suddenly go bust, or freeze people's accounts.
How about the fact that majority of boys cannot visit back home until they're at least 27 or have no citizenship accept Canadian? That's because at ANY point in time they can be stopped on the street by a policeman and asked for his documents. If you're of army age, and are not currently serving in the army, you get arrested. If they find out you are resident in Canada, they will try to get you to pay money to release you (6 years ago a friend of mine paid $5000 to bail his ass out of prison). Police can come and break down your front door and take your 17-18 son and send him to army, no questions asked. Noone cares if you're in university and half blind or have any health-related problems - the country has to meet an army "quota". |
|
|
| VDub |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
I don't remember anyone saying that life in Eastern Europe is much better than over here. At least I didn't say so. Is that the best argument you have against our discussion? |
No probably not but I don't care enough to elaborate... |
|
|
| StereoPrincess |
This is the thing for me.
Few pages back, peeps were saying, how can Poland and/or other country mistrust Russia because of something that happened 70 years ago or under a different dictator. You yourself are saying that you don't trust your own government (corruption, beaurocracy, no future), how can you expect another nation's people to trust your government. makes no sense. if the same system is still in place, how can the rest of the world have any good feelings about Russia.
again, no one is saying that the people of russia are bad and evil. no one says that. people are just people. some are good some are bad. even the government in russia isn't really evil either, it's the system that they have in place. it's almost like a giant hand suppressing the good things to come out. you have to be corrupt to make it out and into some position of authority. it just feeds the system more and more. |
|
|
| FunkyCrew |
Well to me it sounded like you generalized ALL Russians under one nation that you can't trust - there is a difference between disliking people who rule the country and your average Bob the Russian lol. Not like all of them are puppets in the hands of Putin - there are bad and good people in each country. Distrusting the head of Russian state and his right hand (PM) - well that's a whole different story.
Just because we cannot live a good life back at home, doesn't mean the country as a WHOLE is a horrible place. The system that is in place - that's what making it hard. Average citizens cannot do much about it, unless they get out like we did. Electing new politicians stopped getting anything accomplished a long time ago. It's a vicious circle really. |
|
|
| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
This is the thing for me.
Few pages back, peeps were saying, how can Poland and/or other country mistrust Russia because of something that happened 70 years ago or under a different dictator. You yourself are saying that you don't trust your own government (corruption, beaurocracy, no future), how can you expect another nation's people to trust your government. makes no sense. if the same system is still in place, how can the rest of the world have any good feelings about Russia.
again, no one is saying that the people of russia are bad and evil. no one says that. people are just people. some are good some are bad. even the government in russia isn't really evil either, it's the system that they have in place. it's almost like a giant hand suppressing the good things to come out. you have to be corrupt to make it out and into some position of authority. it just feeds the system more and more. |
Thats why in Russia everyone looks out to people like Putin and Medvedev, the only ones who truly give a . They do care, at least sometimes, because there have been televised instances where they attended to regional grievances over despicable ignorance by officials. The rest are mostly fat bureacrats who sit on their lazy asses and collect bribes.
Thats why educated people, or those with money, immigrate en-masse to the West. Putin sees this, he made many references to these issues, but even he is powerless to stop the bull that is sagging his country down.
Hence I lived in Canada for many years, wave the Canadian flag, defend this system against idiots (and there are plenty of idiots everywhere).
Poland is a much smaller country, things are more easy to oversee, so living standards and situation is much better off because officials cant hide from the government. Russia is a gigantic country, with over 70 regions, and one cant expect two people to be able to attend to the grievances of one hundred+ million citizens when local officials dont give a . Thats the difference, plus the old Soviet mentality and system. Money and resources often don't reach those who need it. Police operate with impunity, and when problems do arise, the way they try to address them is by firing the guy in charge of the situation. But that really doesnt change anything, another bureaucrat takes his place and the saga continues.
|
|
|
| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
Well to me it sounded like you generalized ALL Russians under one nation that you can't trust - there is a difference between disliking people who rule the country and your average Bob the Russian lol. Not like all of them are puppets in the hands of Putin - there are bad and good people in each country. Distrusting the head of Russian state and his right hand (PM) - well that's a whole different story. |
i am sorry, if i made it sound like that. i didn't mean to generalize.
but i did in fact say that Putin himself shouldn't be "heading the investigation". that's the first thing i said. |
|
|
| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
i am sorry, if i made it sound like that. i didn't mean to generalize.
but i did in fact say that Putin himself shouldn't be "heading the investigation". that's the first thing i said. |
fair enough
(I edited my post btw)
oh, I also think that because this tragedy has got so much Western attention, the Russian authorities and Putin himself will have been to very honest about the results of the investigation - so like someone pointed out, it's better that this directly under his supervision |
|
|
|
|
