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President of Poland and other high-ranking officials killed in plane crash (pg. 5)
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| Sasha |
| quote: | Originally posted by VDub
The problem is that it was a 20 year old Russian plane...
Those were at 20 days old... |
The pilots were at fault, not the plane. The plane was 100% fine! The officials have confirmed that.
Is it a new trend to blame everything on Russians?
:rolleyes: |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by geroin
some good points here, i'm also wondering why did tusk fly in on wednesday by himself to meet with putin instead of flying with the same people on saturday like everyone else did. hrrmm... |
because they are not getting along.
also putin didn't invite both. |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Stalin committed crimes against everyone, even his own people - it has been accepted so by the Russian government, and there's even a national day to remember the victims of this oppression. |
if it's so accepted then why won't the russians release the documents and allow a war crimes investigation?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/w...html?ref=europe |
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| VDub |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sasha
The pilots were at fault, not the plane. The plane was 100% fine! The officials have confirmed that.
Is it a new trend to blame everything on Russians?
:rolleyes: |
I'm not trying to blame Russians particulary...
I really don't give a rats ass about the situation...
But I have one question...
If it was western technology on a western airfield, would they not have ILS to assist in a foggy landing???
And another question...
Was the pilot Russian or Polish???
Just wondering.. |
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| hardcore_barbie |
| the pilot was polish, the whole 7 people crew was polish... but that doesnt really matter because what they tell you on the news is what the general public is going to believe... putin himself insisted to be directly involved in the investigation... so if this wasnt an accident we wont know for another 50 years, just like katyn 70 years ago... |
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| wing |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sasha
The pilots were at fault, not the plane. The plane was 100% fine! The officials have confirmed that.
Is it a new trend to blame everything on Russians?
:rolleyes: |
Hmm..I read there were rumors of the plane sounding weird |
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| hardcore_barbie |
| quote: | Originally posted by wing
Hmm..I read there were rumors of the plane sounding weird |
i believe there was two planes going to smolensk that day from poland... one with the politicians and another with media representatives... journalists etc. although usually they go with the president on the same plane... this time there was two many people going...
the plane with the media reps had problems with the engines already at the airport... they were flying on a JAK-40... they switched planes apparently to another JAK-40... they landed at the smolensk military airport before the other plane carrying the polish president... apparently the fog only appeared when the president's plane was to land... according to this site... there was ONLY fog from 10am -1pm when the president's plane was landing:
http://www.wunderground.com/history...ilyHistory.html |
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| hardcore_barbie |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_M...ev_Tu-134_crash
this is interesting --> 1986... same plane, same cause of crash : "flight crew failed to follow procedural requirements"... also had political implications... president & 30 something people died...
i hope that there will be further investigation into the crash of the polish plane like in 1986... when the south african, mozambique, soviet gov'ts investigated the crash separately, as well as a totally independent investigation was done... but i doubt it =( |
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore_barbie
perhaps this allows russia to get closer relations with poland |
This is exactly what I am worried about as well. Much of Poland's prospertity has been a result of moving away from the Eastern Bloc and Russia. Moving back closer to Russia will likely spell a reversal of Poland's recent fortunes and reduced access to Western markets/treaties. |
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| Magnetonium |
Why? The answer is on the same link of yours.
| quote: |
Russian officials, including Mr. Putin and President Dmitri A. Medvedev, have lashed out at what they consider falsifications of history meant to denigrate the Soviet Union’s role in World War II. Many Russians consider the war a defining moment in their history, in which as many as 25 million Soviet citizens died, according to some estimates.
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If Putin does go all the way with opening all archives, issue official apology and basically taking personal blame, he will open a huge can of worms for many other Stalin's crimes to be dealt with, as a precedent, i.e. "Why did Putin apologize for Katyn but not for hundreds of other Stalin's crimes?". They would rather accept that Stalin did commit all these crimes, wrap them together ("victims of totalitarian regimes"), acknowledge they happened, build memorials for each, heal wounds and carry on. ESPECIALLY separate them from Soviet contributions in WW2 in defeating Nazi Germany, in which Russians paid a heavy price and contributed significantly to the defeat of Nazi Germany, a huge sacrifice. Otherwise, countries and groups will start asking for compensation, international declarations, and so on. It's a very sensitive issue, and Russians probably feel like they are being asked too much, considering the Soviet past and how it may still harm its image today. Opening the dark archives may make this political situation worse, and it will further place a bigger shadow on Soviet contributions in World War II.
Soviets already tried with opening archives previously on Kholodomor, and that turned so bad for them that it has been recognized as genocide against Ukrainian people by several countries. Altough many ethnic Russians starved to death there, too. I had a distant relative lost in that famine - I hail from a Cossack lineage, and the world community doesnt care that communists took up a genocidal campaign against us! Because everyone is too busy concerned only about themselves, and everyone is forgetting that many Russian people were senselessly slaughtered by the monstrous Stalinist regime. So it is very hurtful and insulting for people like me to hear Kholodomor considered as more significant or more special, a genocide against Ukrainian people, who feel like they more entitled compared to other victims.
Thats why Jews are disliked in Eastern Europe, because in many instances of the Holocaust ordinary Soviet citizens were gassed and mass-executed together with Jewish people (how can people forget that Hitler ran a campaign of extermination against Slavs!), but Holocaust was labeled as exclusively Jewish struggle. At least thats what people get the impression from, in the media, movies and education systems.
I lost many family members to all those awful Soviet crimes, lost my way of life, tradition, home. But noone speaks for me. Not even Putin, who has to speak for Katyn first, because international political relations are more important (especially regional).
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| Xavier Moriarty |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore_barbie
apparently the fog only appeared when the president's plane was to land... according to this site... there was ONLY fog from 10am -1pm when the president's plane was landing:
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LOL
wow !!!!! |
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| bluE_Neon |
Everyone can speculate whichever analysis they portray but in reality the truth will be buried for many years to come. Every Polak in Poland knows that.
| quote: | Originally posted by Sasha
Is it a new trend to blame everything on Russians?
:rolleyes: |
No, it's not the people to blame.
Because those archives likely contain more intel then what we know so far. In my opinion, huj z nimi. It won't change anything now.
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore_barbie
putin himself insisted to be directly involved in the investigation... so if this wasnt an accident we wont know for another 50 years, just like katyn 70 years ago... |
The Russian government will cover up any necessary facts, modify the black box and release to Polacy later. Typical Russian old stab you in the back style. |
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