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So much for unlimited internet ! (pg. 36)
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View this Thread in Original format
| kamil |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stilez
This argument of yours, Chem & Moral is going in circles & pointless. Who cares about what we can 'live without' or what was in place before. The fact is that this technology is here NOW & we all use it (eg. you're all using it right now to argue your senseless point on TA). We can prob do without TV, cars, gas, and pretty much everything else that has been invented in the past 100 years. That's NOT the point. The point is moving forward & looking into the future, and anything that will hinder or prevent/stunt growth & more importantly, fair growth, for future technology, shouldn't be allowed.
Anyone who says that the web/net isn't or won't be a major moving force or part of the future is not only an ignoramus, but cannot be taken seriously & loses all credibility in this discussion.
I'm not totally against charging more for bandwidth abusers/hogs, but at the same time, I am strongly against having in place a 'blanket' practice/charge that penalizes ALL web users who actually make use of this amazing technology that we have available to us. |
UBB wouldnt be such a bad idea if the inflated price was fair. Most wholesalers inflate their prices by about 40% to make profits and break even. Anything more and it is pretty much pure profit. Bell's regulation calls for 6,600% increase. Paying 2 dollar when it costs 1-3 cents is near criminal. I'd be content paying no more than 10 cents per gig, and even then its still a large profit margin.
But to enforce this policy on other businesses, as in, smaller ISPs so that non-bell customers get raped too, is total ing bull and a clear sign of market monopoly and strong-arming everyone. |
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| VDub |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stilez
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Dude all we're saying is that the net is not essential for life which is what these guys are saying...
They're saying that without the net in your house, you wouldn't be able to function. We're saying that it's not so...
I do have it, use it and love it. But I could live without it if I had to or couldn't afford it...
All of this started with Chem simply saying that if you wanted to protest the cost, cancel your home service. Not forever. Just long enough for it to hurt the providers. A lot of ppl would have to do it of course for that to work..
Now I'm going to do what Chem and Moral did and off out of this thread because it's obviously pointless to talk to a bunch of internet spoiled ppl about our point...
Like I said before...
It's like talking to a brick wall... |
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| UXC |
To vDub
Your telling me im going to get unfiltered/equivalent internet access from my local school or library or even a more public organization? you are high my friend.
Those ing places filter out the internet till there is barley any internet left. Also, you cannot just willy nilly do what you want there either, often time there are strict upload limitations which cuts the use of the internet by half in my opinion.
Also keep in mind im not arguing against boycotting internet, you just assumed I would think that that is a bad idea, your methods of arguing from what i'm seeing are just plain old childish. I was arguing for how important it was to me, and how important it is to have. Somehow you decided that my argument was against boycotting the net where in fact it was a direct reply to you and chem stating that you would be 100% fine without it and justified your claims by saying we have been fine without it for years (millions in chams view). That type of argument simply has no bearing on reality.
Please realize that giving up the internet for a bit to guarantee we have it at a decent rate is a logical choice of action if in fact the rest of the public uses it casually like you do.
Suppose that I have an online business that that generates 100% of my income for my family. Getting into my mind set you will quickly see that giving up net access will not only stop the revenue stream but possibly even cripple the business (reputation/service etc). That individual will not join you in the fight against the giants, because to his business and life it is an essential service just as the electricity is to power his computer(s).
If you want to be heard , please state what your argument as clearly as you can so we understand how to receive it. I think that is a healthy approach, because arguing in circles is never fun. If you state an argument that is thought out and not just a jerk I will respond to the best of my abilities and hopefully we can both see this situation were in harmony. |
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| UXC |
| quote: | Originally posted by VDub
Dude all we're saying is that the net is not essential for life which is what these guys are saying...
They're saying that without the net in your house, you wouldn't be able to function. We're saying that it's not so...
I do have it, use it and love it. But I could live without it if I had to or couldn't afford it...
All of this started with Chem simply saying that if you wanted to protest the cost, cancel your home service. Not forever. Just long enough for it to hurt the providers. A lot of ppl would have to do it of course for that to work..
Now I'm going to do what Chem and Moral did and off out of this thread because it's obviously pointless to talk to a bunch of internet spoiled ppl about our point...
Like I said before...
It's like talking to a brick wall... |
Btw I just want you to know that you have indirectly insulted me on a number of occasions in this thread, I don't care but I wanted you to actually comprehend that and see how difficult it is for some of us to take you seriously sometimes. Can you say the same about me? An internet spoiled person?
If I indirectly pointed at the fact that you may be older, that was a part of an argument to prove that different generations have different priorities and non more so than that with the internet. |
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| evil_cookie |
| quote: | Originally posted by VDub
the net is not essential for life which is what these guys are saying...
I do have it, use it and love it. But I could live without it if I had to or couldn't afford it... |
LOL wtf?
Very little is actually essential for life. But what does that have to do with anything? How does this line of thought support your argument?
edit:
Just when I thought you could not be anymore clueless:
| quote: | Originally posted by VDub
I mean, the world did cope before 1990 you know... |
What does that have to do with anything?
There are hundreds of thousands of employment opportunities now that would not be possible without the internet.
Sorry to break it to ya' but maybe construction work isn't that much more complex than the 1990's--but the fact is that we live in a much, much more sophisticated world than we did in the 1990's. And the internet is absolutely an essential part and, in fact, a key hallmark of that sophistication. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by UXC
Suppose that I have an online business that that generates 100% of my income for my family. Getting into my mind set you will quickly see that giving up net access will not only stop the revenue stream but possibly even cripple the business (reputation/service etc). That individual will not join you in the fight against the giants, because to his business and life it is an essential service just as the electricity is to power his computer(s).
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If you are running a home business that it an internet based business then yes you need it but you would be the exception to the rule. The majority of people who purchase home internet use it for pleasure and not business. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_cookie
LOL wtf?
Very little is actually essential for life. But what does that have to do with anything? How does this line of thought support your argument? |
Simple, if it costs too much to have home internet then cancel it. As long as people are willing to pay the high costs then the providers will continue to charge them. |
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| UXC |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
If you are running a home business that it an internet based business then yes you need it but you would be the exception to the rule. The majority of people who purchase home internet use it for pleasure and not business. |
I am one of those. How can you argue that I should stop my internet connection? For how long? Or do I not have to but the rest of you have to? Also you are underestimating how many HOME internet connections are being used for commerce.
Also, what is your argument? I am unclear what it is you are trying to say. Is it that you think we (those without essential services running) should boycott the internet companies in hopes to apply pressure to reduce rates and somehow increase competition?
I just want to be clear as to know how to respond to you better. |
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| kamil |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
Simple, if it costs too much to have home internet then cancel it. As long as people are forced to pay the high costs then the providers will continue to charge them. |
Fixed. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by UXC
I am one of those. How can you argue that I should stop my internet connection? For how long? Or do I not have to but the rest of you have to? Also you are underestimating how many HOME internet connections are being used for commerce.
Also, what is your argument? I am unclear what it is you are trying to say. Is it that you think we (those without essential services running) should boycott the internet companies in hopes to apply pressure to reduce rates and somehow increase competition?
I just want to be clear as to know how to respond to you better. |
As long as the small internet providers have to purchase bandwidth from the big providers and as long as the CRTC doesn't remove foreign investment barriers you will never have an increase in competition. Since neither of those two things are going to happen any time soon the only other thing we can do is boycott the providers until they lower their prices.
People want to consider it a necessity to life but how can it be when there are still millions of Canadians that don't even have access to home internet service. If people want to make it a necessity of life then are those with it willing to subsidize the cost so all Canadians can have access? |
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| kamil |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
As long as the small internet providers have to purchase bandwidth from the big providers and as long as the CRTC doesn't remove foreign investment barriers you will never have an increase in competition. |
Wrong.
Bell has a 25 year agreement with the government based on a bid that if they paid for the infastructure, they would own the lines for that many years. So no, the lines are not theirs. Also, Bell has received funding from the government ANYWAY to build the lines, so they have been paid for by canadians, the tax payer.
You dont need foreign investment to improve competition. What needs to happen is the CRTC puts stricter regulations against Bell's/Rogers' duopoly thus allowing competition. Even if the smaller ISPs use current copper lines, they dont necessarily have to rely on bells system to go through. The smaller ISPs would only need to build DSLAMs and COs, thus using the lines but not bell's system, and being nearly 100% free of Bell. Such workarounds actually do exist from some smaller ISPs like teksavvy in Chatham and Yak in Kitchener, which allows them to still offer unlimited data as it doesnt affect Bell at all. The reality is, even if it did effect Bell, it makes almost no difference to their congestion excuse.
So, what would be ideal is if the government started funding the smaller ISPs in Canada instead of having Bell expand its monopoly. There are 800 smaller ISPs in Canada, I'm a merger of some would be pretty awesome to create some serious competition and expand DSLAMs, COs and laying down fibre, but the problem is that only Bell has that kind of money, and single smaller ISPs won't be able to do it.
Anyone defending UBB, Bell, Conservatives or the CRTC is only looking out for shareholders, because thats the only person whos going to benefit from UBB being put in place. |
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| Brennen |
vDub: Please do everyone a favor and disconnect your internet. Like you said, you dont need it right?
Your arguments have nothing to do with the issues at hand and are just the same two "points" over and over.
Until you have something concrete and factual to talk about, gtfo. |
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