|
2014 FIFA World Cup | Official Thread (pg. 23)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| wotyzoid |
| If our strikers aren't gonna do their job and put the ball in the net, ing adapt. |
|
|
| DOOMBOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by wotyzoid
Have YOU ever seen Neymar play? Yes he plays on the flank but he moves all over the 18. Same with Bernard, putting them both up front a little bit further away from the sides and giving the midfielders more of that responsibility would not be THAT big of a difference. his "comfort zone" he's a ing soccer player, play ing soccer. |
Sorry, didn't mean to get you upset. I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence; I really am curious if you've ever seen him play before.
You are correct, he does have a lot of freedom with the national team and also had the freedom with Santos to move around the pitch but his area of focus is and has always been from the flanks. Putting him and even Bernard more towards the center of the pitch puts the both of them out of position and away from where they do most of their damage. There is a reason why bigger guys like Fred and Jo are strikers and why they, for example, aren't positioned on the flank like Neymar or Bernard. You simply want your more explosive, smaller guys, going up and down the sides of the pitch and floating towards the middle when necessary. Would you position Robinho or Lucas Moura as a striker? No. The reason is exactly the same. They are smaller more explosive players who are more damaging when used on the flanks. Putting them more towards the center not only limits the ability to do this but it also creates a higher chance for them to be physically abused and injured. |
|
|
| DOOMBOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by wotyzoid
If our strikers aren't gonna do their job and put the ball in the net, ing adapt. |
We are only 2 games into the tournament. Relax! :D |
|
|
| wotyzoid |
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
Sorry, didn't mean to get you upset. I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence; I really am curious if you've ever seen him play before.
You are correct, he does have a lot of freedom with the national team and also had the freedom with Santos to move around the pitch but his area of focus is and has always been from the flanks. Putting him and even Bernard more towards the center of the pitch puts the both of them out of position and away from where they do most of their damage. There is a reason why bigger guys like Fred and Jo are strikers and why they, for example, aren't positioned on the flank like Neymar or Bernard. You simply want your more explosive, smaller guys, going up and down the sides of the pitch and floating towards the middle when necessary. Would you position Robinho or Lucas Moura as a striker? No. The reason is exactly the same. They are smaller more explosive players who are more damaging when used on the flanks. Putting them more towards the center not only limits the ability to do this but it also creates a higher chance for them to be physically abused and injured. |
I understand all of that, I don't know why you're talking to me like I don't know the sport. It's just about giving the squad a sense of urgency. Bigger risk, bigger reward. They both have enough talent to score inside the 18 away from the wing. |
|
|
| DOOMBOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by wotyzoid
I understand all of that, I don't know why you're talking to me like I don't know the sport. It's just about giving the squad a sense of urgency. Bigger risk, bigger reward. They both have enough talent to score inside the 18 away from the wing. |
I only asked you that because I have never seen Neymar play the striker role and you seem to want to have him put there in the middle of this tournament, almost out of the blue. Your logic of bigger risk and reward, via putting people out of position, would also mean that maybe we should put Dani Alves into the striker role. It's a much bigger risk then putting Neymar there but the reward could also prove to be great. I think we would agree that this isn't a smart thing to do though.
My personal opinion is that Lucas Moura should have made this squad when Hulk should have been left at home. This didn't happen, therefor other, more sensible tactics should be put into place. Starting Ramires today was also a strange move in my opinion. Scolari seems to have put himself in an interesting dilemma because with Hulk now injured, the only true replacement for him is Bernard, which is someone that he likes to substitute in, after half time. I believe he opted for 1 too many midfielders. He should have dropped one and took Lucas Moura and maybe even Robinho to the tournament with the rest of this squad. I think with Hulk out, he needs either a new formation or just start Bernard and ditch the plan of adding him later in the game, to get that last jolt of speed and agility on the pitch that you get with him. |
|
|
| Lira |
Hah, nice, I had no idea :) |
|
|
| wotyzoid |
| quote: | Originally posted by DOOMBOT
I only asked you that because I have never seen Neymar play the striker role and you seem to want to have him put there in the middle of this tournament, almost out of the blue. Your logic of bigger risk and reward, via putting people out of position, would also mean that maybe we should put Dani Alves into the striker role. It's a much bigger risk then putting Neymar there but the reward could also prove to be great. I think we would agree that this isn't a smart thing to do though. |
No, you are making assumptions. Daniel can't finish like Neymar can.
| quote: | | My personal opinion is that Lucas Moura should have made this squad... |
This I agree with 100%, even though Lucas is not in top form. I'd take Pato, Damiao or Alan Kardec instead of Hulk and Lucas instead of Paulinho. |
|
|
| DOOMBOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by wotyzoid
No, you are making assumptions. Daniel can't finish like Neymar can. |
I was only using Alves in the context of your risk/reward statement. You're right; Alves can't finish like Neymar but Neymar doesn't have the strength and physique like Fred or Jo, in order to put up with the physical abuse that one would receive as a striker, which is why he is used on the flank.
Take AC Milan, for example; you have Balotelli as a true striker while smaller, quicker guys like Shaarawy or Robinho on the flanks. PSG uses Ibrahimovic as a true striker while Moura or Lavezzi play the flanks.
If you're a coach and you want to use the 1 or maybe 2 strikers at the top favouring the middle of the pitch, typically you want someone there who can be a physical presence. Neymar and Bernard are more effective on the flanks with the bursts of speed and skill.
| quote: | | This I agree with 100%, even though Lucas is not in top form. I'd take Pato, Damiao or Alan Kardec instead of Hulk and Lucas instead of Paulinho. |
Pato and Damiao haven't proven a whole heck of a lot in the last year or so. Pato didn't do so well with Corinthians and I'm not expecting him to do much better with Sao Paulo either. Damiao is fighting for playing time on Santos, given the fact that they have an up and coming star in Gabriel Almeira. I like Paulinho a lot. I think when he was on Corinthians, he really got to express himself. It's a little frustrating watching him play on Tottenham sometimes but maybe he's just taking longer to adjust in England. I think he plays well on the national level though. Like other players there, he has more freedom. This is why Neymar does much better with Brazil then he does on Barcelona, in my opinion. He has more freedom. |
|
|
| SYSTEM-J |
You can play a physically small striker up front on his own, but generally that would entail him playing off the shoulder of the defence and your team playing a lot of early balls in behind for him to chase and stretch the defence, something Brazil are unlikely to do because Scolari probably expects teams to play deep against them. The other alternative is to use your striker as a false 9 and Neymar's tendency to rove would probably make him decent in this role, but I've never heard of him playing as a false 9 and now is a risky time to try.
Neymar certainly doesn't exclusively play in a wide position - he was through the middle behind Fred for much of the Croatia match, for example - but I don't think he should replace Fred as the spearhead. The consensus is that Brazil play 4-2-3-1. Fred almost seems like a sacrificial lamb, tactically: he's there for his hold up play and to draw defenders. Neymar to me seems like a player who's better picking the ball up from deep and dribbling at the defence. He doesn't have the physical presence or selflessnes to be a target man. |
|
|
| LoveHate |
| this is going to come off as a total newb question, but where is kaka, robinho & ronaldino , as well as some of the other star brazilian players ? were they just not available to play ? i don't really recognize anyone on the pitch besides neymar, silva and dani alves , i thought age might of been a factor but julio ceaser is 34. :conf: |
|
|
| Vector A |
| Goalkeepers can play older since they don't have anywhere near as much running to do. Not really a good comparison. |
|
|
| Trance-M |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vector A
Goalkeepers can play older since they don't have anywhere near as much running to do. Not really a good comparison. |
Indeed, and they can remain playing at the top level, like Van der Sar did with Manchester United. He retired being 40.
Other players often go to other clubs (often outside Europe, or their homeland in a weaker competition) to end their career.
Buffon e.g. is 36 years old. |
|
|
|
|
