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Best idea ever: Muslim gay bar possibly opening next to Ground Zero mosque (pg. 25)
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| Lews |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Yeah... it was peaceful because people were afraid of the alternative choice of conversion or death. But there's more:
Interesting, considering what they're doing at Ground Zero ;) |
:stongue: :stongue:
You can say that about any culture. Should we start complaining about churches too? After all, Christians have a long history of building churches in lands they've conquered! |
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| Lews |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Who's offended... you? Are you a Muslim who thinks it's offensive for me to suggest such a "wild" accusation that this monstrosity build next door to Ground Zero is not really in the name of outreach? LOL! How are you personally offended by what I'm saying right now?
And, if you think a small group of extremists is all we're dealing with, then I don't know what to say. Are you aware that the Imam in charge of the whole thing refuses to denounce Hamas as a terrorist organization, and explained in multiple interviews that the U.S. government is at least partially responsible for the 9/11 attacks?
"cultural center".... :stongue: |
I wasn't aware that you had to be insulting me personally for me to find what you're saying offensive.
I find it offensive when people make homophobic statements and I'm not gay. I find it offensive when people make misogynistic statements and I'm not female.
I've read a lot about the Imam and no, I don't like him. But that doesn't mean I think we should block the Mosque from being built.
Do you think we need to be afraid of all Muslims? |
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| DjWhooCares |
| ohhh not but its ok, you cant compare christians to terrorists!! |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
Do you think we need to be afraid of all Muslims? |
What kind of question is this? I'm not 12 years old. Afraid of "all Muslims"? No, but we should be weary of the movement of radical Islam by studying history and watching today's examples of their leadership's unwavering calls for worldwide Islamicization. Look at the problems they're having in England and France now, as honor killings and Sharia Law are being practiced in their own backyard. They use our politically correct society and politics of victimization against us to advance their creeping agenda. People are just too big of pussies to acknowledge it out of fear.
This Imam leading the Ground Zero efforts is also for establishing Sharia Law in the U.S. His book "What’s Right with Islam is What’s Right with America" was previously published under a different name for the Islamic world: "A Call to Prayer from the World Trade Center Rubble: Islamic Dawa in the Heart of America Post-9/11". ("dawa" is Islamic proselytism).
This idea that we need to constantly prove to the world that we are a nation devoted to justice is going to be our undoing. Who requires this proof? 70% of the people oppose this Mosque being built in that spot... but we must instead listen to the pious cries of the liberal elite, from the safety of their $30 million estates that "those opposed to the Mosque are against religious freedom!" (I'm talking about you Bloomberg and Cuomo!)
| quote: | | Should we start complaining about churches too? After all, Christians have a long history of building churches in lands they've conquered! |
Funny you mention this. Landmark church St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church was destroyed in the 9/11 blast. They've been trying to rebuild since, and in 2009 the Port Authority told the church to cut back the building's size and height of the proposed dome, because new law stipulates that it can be no higher than the World Trade Center memorial. Bloomberg refuses to help or get involved. Yet, the proposed Mosque is 13 stories, far exceeding the height of the WTC Memorial and there's Bloomberg all teary eyed, calling for acceptence and demanding it be built. There were demonstrators across the street protesting the cross that was in place on the Church's parcel of land. Where's the outrage from those same pious s who demand tolerance of all things Islam at Ground Zero?
But anyway, this equivalence comparison you put forth is absurd. Are American Christians flying planes into buildings? Joining their military then shooting up fellow soldiers while yelling "The power of Christ compels you!"? Bombing ships, nightclubs, markets, embassies, in Muslim countries? no. Hey, don't get me wrong- I think there are plenty of nut jobs out there, and we do get the occasional abortion doctor murder, but there's no comparison. |
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| Spacey Orange |
lulz here. The17sss is either totally taking the piss or he's serious. if the latter, may i recommend taking a break from the internets. also read:
cheers. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| i think there needs to be some middle ground where raising concerns about islamism doesn't automatically make you a bigot. im not an advocate of US-style, first amendment protection, and i don't appreciate imams in australia disseminating archaic views and beliefs about women or democracy. i don't understand why i am expected to tolerate such viewpoints from people who choose to move to my country, when they are free to move to nations more in line with their values. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Dude, come on, of course it's a symbol victory- right where their biggest attack on America took place. |
One could also argue that it's a symbol victory for the US, as it shows the world just how tolerant they are by allowing a mosque to be built in that location. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Yea a church where gays aren't allowed to get married.
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Just as a point of fact... the YMCA is not a church nor is it affiliated with any particular sect of Christianity; moreover, several Christian sects have absolutely no issue with homosexuals being wed. Finally, if your point here is to show Islam and Christianity are equally hateful you've failed, as homosexuality is more verboten in Islam then in Christianity (even the most fundi of the latter only take issue with the sexual act between members of the same sex whereas the former rejects it et al). I'm not suggesting for a second that one religion is better or worse (depending on one's perspective) then the other... just that you in' suck at rhetoric. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
i think there needs to be some middle ground where raising concerns about islamism doesn't automatically make you a bigot. im not an advocate of US-style, first amendment protection, and i don't appreciate imams in australia disseminating archaic views and beliefs about women or democracy. i don't understand why i am expected to tolerate such viewpoints from people who choose to move to my country, when they are free to move to nations more in line with their values. |
While I see where you're coming from I'd much rather have people who advance distasteful or even dangerous ideas do so loudly so that they can be heard and challenged; rather, then do so in such a way that only their target audience can hear and thereby go completely untested. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
While I see where you're coming from I'd much rather have people who advance distasteful or even dangerous ideas do so loudly so that they can be heard and challenged; rather, then do so in such a way that only their target audience can hear and thereby go completely untested. |
well, they can have their ideas challenged when they're back in saudi arabia :p
| quote: |
LEADERS of the global Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir have called on Australian Muslims to spurn secular democracy and Western notions of moderate Islam and join the struggle for a transnational Islamic state.
British Hizb ut-Tahrir leader Burhan Hanif told participants at a conference in western Sydney yesterday that democracy is "haram" (forbidden) for Muslims, whose political engagement should be be based purely on Islamic law.
"We must adhere to Islam and Islam alone," Mr Hanif told about 500 participants attending the convention in Lidcombe.
"We should not be conned or succumb to the disingenuous and flawed narrative that the only way to engage politically is through the secular democratic process. It is prohibited and haram."
He said democracy was incompatible with Islam because the Koran insisted Allah was the sole lawmaker, and Muslim political involvement could not be based on "secular and erroneous concepts such as democracy and freedom".
His view was echoed by an Australian HT official, Wassim Dourehi, who told the conference Muslims should not support "any kafir (non-believer) political party", because humans have no right to make laws.
Mr Dourehi also urged Muslims to spurn the concept of moderate Islam promoted by governments in the West, including in "this godforsaken country" of Australia.
"We need to reject this new secular version of Islam," he said. "It is a perverted concoction of Western governments.
"It is a perversion that seeks to wipe away the political aspects of Islam and localise our concerns. We must reject it and challenge the proponents of this aberration of Islam."
The conference, which followed the theme The struggle for Islam in the West' was the first major event held by the Australian branch of HT since a seminar in 2007 which coincided with calls for the group to be banned.
HT is outlawed in much of the Middle East but operates legally in more than 40 countries, campaigning for the establishment of a caliphate or Islamic state.
HT's platform rejects the use of violence in its quest for an Islamic state, but supports the military destruction of Israel.
But the group's presence sparked angry protests outside as members of the Australian Protectionist Party (APP) yelled anti-Islam chants.
The APP met in a small park to express their need to "protect" the Australian way of life.
Conflict between the APP and HT amounted to an exchange of words, anti-Islam chants and the occasional drive-by of young Muslim men yelling obscenities from their car at the APP protesters.
One passer-by, a young Muslim man, yelled at the APP group: "You people have absolutely no idea", sparking a fiery exchange of accusations and finger-pointing.
Nick Folkes, the Sydney organiser for the APP, believes that the HT should be banned in Australia and thinks that practising sharia law should be illegal in Australia.
"Sharia law is an archaic legal system that treats woman as second-class citizens," he said.
"We're not asking them to change their skin colour or religion. But if they come here, they must reject sharia law." |
http://www.news.com.au/national/isl...r-1225887784755
what im concerned about is how many of these speeches occur that we don't hear about and (like you say) go unchallenged? its a fairly short separation between these ideas and advocating jihad for a transnational islamic state. if democracy is a bad thing then i'd like to show them just how undemocratic we can be by putting them in a cell :) |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
what im concerned about is how many of these speeches occur that we don't hear about and (like you say) go unchallenged? its a fairly short separation between these ideas and advocating jihad for a transnational islamic state. if democracy is a bad thing then i'd like to show them just how undemocratic we can be by putting them in a cell :) |
I understand the concern; however, if one were to start imprisoning or deporting people because they express undesirable views then; a) you're essentially outlawing minority opinion (taken to it's logical end), and b) we'll simply hear none of them and all will go unchallenged. It won't accomplish the intended goal; despite all Stalin's purges discent was still present, expressed, even published... the same would happen here. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
I understand the concern; however, if one were to start imprisoning or deporting people because they express undesirable views then; a) you're essentially outlawing minority opinion (taken to it's logical end), and b) we'll simply hear none of them and all will go unchallenged. It won't accomplish the intended goal; despite all Stalin's purges discent was still present, expressed, even published... the same would happen here. |
this from the person who wanted to put all native indians from reserves behind a giant wall and fill it with water |
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