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Occupy Toronto (pg. 11)
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| Orko |
One thing I would love to see out of these protests, is the cut in close ties between big business and the creation of laws. Far too often, governments 'consult' corps on new laws, which favour those corps, and on the people.
Take the new copyright laws in Canada. The Gov constantly said that 'after hearing Canadians, we created new laws to make them more fair'. But, I don't know a single person that wrote in, or helped shape these laws as a citizen. And, I work for a large Canadian media company, and am very involved online. I feel I should have talked to somebody who had input. If citizens did not have input, who is left?
Another example is the bull that the CRTC tried pulling with internet regulation. After consulting the people (Bell), they decided to go through with idiotic changes to the system. It had to come down to a massive online petition to change things. Why weren't the people consulted first? If there was such overwhelming opposition to the proposed rules, don't you think that would have come out quickly, after talking to say...10 people? |
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| Endlesswave |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
One thing I would love to see out of these protests, is the cut in close ties between big business and the creation of laws. Far too often, governments 'consult' corps on new laws, which favour those corps, and on the people.
Take the new copyright laws in Canada. The Gov constantly said that 'after hearing Canadians, we created new laws to make them more fair'. But, I don't know a single person that wrote in, or helped shape these laws as a citizen. And, I work for a large Canadian media company, and am very involved online. I feel I should have talked to somebody who had input. If citizens did not have input, who is left?
Another example is the bull that the CRTC tried pulling with internet regulation. After consulting the people (Bell), they decided to go through with idiotic changes to the system. It had to come down to a massive online petition to change things. Why weren't the people consulted first? If there was such overwhelming opposition to the proposed rules, don't you think that would have come out quickly, after talking to say...10 people? |
Yep. This.
Also, I'm not so much annoyed w 'getting a slice of the pie' so to speak as I am w these corporations not paying any taxes (up here it's probably nothing compared to the US) but that's what would be my beef with it IF it were widespread and prevalent. Which I don't think it is in this country. It's that plus the corps having huge huge influence over the Gov. Again it may not be as widespread up here but still. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
One thing I would love to see out of these protests, is the cut in close ties between big business and the creation of laws. Far too often, governments 'consult' corps on new laws, which favour those corps, and on the people.
Take the new copyright laws in Canada. The Gov constantly said that 'after hearing Canadians, we created new laws to make them more fair'. But, I don't know a single person that wrote in, or helped shape these laws as a citizen. And, I work for a large Canadian media company, and am very involved online. I feel I should have talked to somebody who had input. If citizens did not have input, who is left?
Another example is the bull that the CRTC tried pulling with internet regulation. After consulting the people (Bell), they decided to go through with idiotic changes to the system. It had to come down to a massive online petition to change things. Why weren't the people consulted first? If there was such overwhelming opposition to the proposed rules, don't you think that would have come out quickly, after talking to say...10 people? |
The problem is protesting won't make those changes. The only way one can make those changes is by getting on the inside and making change from there. |
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| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
And, I work for a large Canadian media company, and am very involved online. I feel I should have talked to somebody who had input. If citizens did not have input, who is left?
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So you wanted to talk to the gov about the laws or you wanted to talk to a citizen that had input? |
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| LightsOut |
Interesting tidbits:
In 2010 General Electric earned 14.2 billion in profits, yet paid zero taxes in America. In fact, they claimed a 3.2 billion dollar tax benefit.
Google is also notorious for paying almost zero taxes. It's claimed they route their funds through foreign Tax havens and actually only pay around 2.4%.
Exxon Mobil, the largest US energy company, claimed 35 billion in profits in 2009. Guess what, they also ended up paying $0 in federal income tax. |
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| GGM |
| quote: | Originally posted by LightsOut
Interesting tidbits:
In 2010 General Electric earned 14.2 billion in profits, yet paid zero taxes in America. In fact, they claimed a 3.2 billion dollar tax benefit.
Google is also notorious for paying almost zero taxes. It's claimed they route their funds through foreign Tax havens and actually only pay around 2.4%.
Exxon Mobil, the largest US energy company, claimed 35 billion in profits in 2009. Guess what, they also ended up paying $0 in federal income tax. |
You missed Coca-Cola who is one of the most notorious companies for doing this over a long span of time, but yup you're bang on. Anyone who thinks that doesn't happen up here is kidding themselves. Although the methods of getting your corporation's rate to 0% are different it's still doable. Our official corporate tax rates are actually lower than the ones down south, plus future drops are planned with Harper.
Warren Buffet has actually came out recently openly saying the rich (including himself) don't get taxed nearly enough and end up paying a fraction of what the poor and middle class do in terms of percentage. |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by LightsOut
Yeah I hear that, the civil rights movement had many different causes, although it was united under one common criteria. Equality for all.
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also, didn't DeleteFromForums just say the same thing on page 1. that the people are combining their frustrations under one umbrella? treating people well in general. |
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| LightsOut |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
also, didn't DeleteFromForums just say the same thing on page 1. that the people are combining their frustrations under one umbrella? treating people well in general. |
Possibly. With this protest though, the frustrations seem to vary so much. It's not united under one cause, unlike the civil rights movements (whether it was black rights, womans rights or gay/lesbian rights, the message was always the same: everyone has the right to be treated equally). Now, some are protesting against the domestic economic situation, some are protesting about foreign policy and the war in Afghanistan, some about foreign civil rights movements (ie: a free Palestinian state), some about unfair trade practices, and others about the wealth gap. All are worthy causes on their own, but by bringing them together under this so called umbrella, one clear message and one clear course of action isn't able to be heard. |
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| StereoPrincess |
| but why can't they have an electronic device. the idea is that everyone should have the opportunity to get whatever they want and live a good life. if they want an iphone, they should get an iphone. i wouldn't want one of those but to each their own. if they want an adidas tank top, they should be able to get it. |
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| GGM |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
yes and no. the civil rights movement combined with different goals for most of the time. women's rights, gay rights, black rights, against war, etc. people just revolted against everything at that time. and change still took forever to happen. and it wasn't just in the states at the time. students were rioting in france and mexico, people were fighting communism in eastern europe. many things going on at that time. just like now, people are trying to get something going. i am interested in seeing what happens and which goal will be the unifying one. |
True, and in relation to this I can guarantee you the protesters back then repeatedly heard "what you're doing won't make a difference.". |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by LightsOut
Some are protesting against the domestic economic situation, some are protesting about foreign policy and the war in Afghanistan, some about foreign civil rights issues (ie: free Palestinian state), some about unfair trade practices, and others about the wealth gap. |
minus the palestine thing, all those are related. it's the governments piss poor management of money after getting elected. i mean, i would personally like if all money would be granted to R&D to develop new innovative ways of curing diseases, getting green energy, better transportation and even the arts. i do not agree with spending my money on bull like tax cuts for the rich. |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by GGM
True, and in relation to this I can guarantee you the protesters back then repeatedly heard "what you're doing won't make a difference.". |
yup. i just hope that the protests at least are sustained for a while. i mean techically, 10% of americans should be protesting since they got no job anyway. |
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