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Occupy Toronto (pg. 51)
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| jon jon |
| is there an Occupy L/A? Surely there is, but haven't heard/seen any coverage of that camp... |
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| evil_cookie |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
cos if you're telling me you're protesting cos of your OSAP debt (hypothetically speaking), I'm not gonna support you or anyone else for that matter
fighting for basis rights, which is what people in the middle East are/were doing is entirely different story
if you don't see it, than that's a problem.
Chem already stated correctly - issues in NA are from issues in the Middle East |
:haha: |
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| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by jon jon
it's interlude did serve as a great example |
Totally, but I was not unreasonable to expect it might continue for another 10 pages lol |
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| shanny |
In my opinion camping out in parks is for the 2 h's (hippies and hobos). The only thing it's goign to accomplish is to increase the already frightening bad hygiene levels amungst those particular groups.
If I've said it before I have said it a thousand times, the problem has nothing to do with the 99% of the 1%, or the 1% of the 99%.
The problem is that there are way too many women in the work force.
Not only that there is way too much immigration as well.
And don't even get me started on gays in the military.
If women aren't allowed to work, immigration is outlawed and gays aren't allowed in the military anymore that will open up all sort of employment opportunities for the 99% (as long as they are male, non-immigrant, heterosexual).
It shocks me that people haven't figured that out yet, and that the best they have come up with as an alternative is camping out in parks while not showering, and staging rather meaningless rallies with a lack of direction.
Forgive me if I decide to Occupy My Couch until we start addressing the real problem.
Call me when you're really ready for some forward progress. |
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| GGM |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
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Reality is corporations are the current standard for providing the majority of our goods and services. That doesn't mean that there isn't a better system to achieve similar results, or even a better form of corporations if you don't want to think too far from what we currently have. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by GGM
Reality is corporations are the current standard for providing the majority of our goods and services. That doesn't mean that there isn't a better system to achieve similar results, |
The system arose via the cumulative free choices of all of us. If there was a better system then we would have chosen that one instead.
| quote: | Originally posted by GGM
or even a better form of corporations if you don't want to think too far from what we currently have. |
such as? |
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| Endlesswave |
Sure we are free to choose to support the corporations (or not) but like I said before you know how hard it is to NOT do so living in a big city?
It's like being given an illusion of choice. Also I agree with those that say corps aren't blameless but improvements are always needed, with anything. Blatantly unchecked profit solely for the companys' sake without taking its customers into consideration would drive me nuts. Hence having checks and balances. |
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| Endlesswave |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
The system arose via the cumulative free choices of all of us. If there was a better system then we would have chosen that one instead.
such as? |
Looking out for both its self interests AND those its services instead of just only its own interests.
Personal responsibility goes hand in hand with corporate responsibility IMO. ;)
As for if there was a better system we would've chosen that instead, sure but that's not to say the one we have is totally perfect. Constant revision/improvement is always needed (with everything). |
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| infinity HiGH |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
The system arose via the cumulative free choices of all of us. If there was a better system then we would have chosen that one instead.
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That's assuming "we" have that much influence, which "we" don't. Money talks, and at the end of the day it's the corporations with millions of dollars for lobbyists that have the influence and get to shape the system, not "us"
And another thing: hindsight is 20/20...we can't really say what will work for certain until we try it. This system has been working for a while, but it's obvious now that revisions need to be made. |
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| Nick Cenik |
| quote: | Originally posted by infinity HiGH
That's assuming "we" have that much influence, which "we" don't. Money talks, and at the end of the day it's the corporations with millions of dollars for lobbyists that have the influence and get to shape the system, not "us" |
Exactly. |
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| nacarter |
I've tried to sympathize with the OWS movement, but they aren't giving me much to grab onto.
By definition a protest requires a particular issue (Poverty, Corruption, Capitalism, etc. are not particular issues), and by implication, a desired end state. In short, you need a specific complaint, and a desired solution. The occupations lack either, and are little more than a squat.
By their very nature, good protests are persuasive, otherwise you're just preaching to the choir. For example, it doesn't take much effort to run a pro-marijuana protest on a college campus - you won't find many critics or neutral parties. A real protest would be held at a seniors centre - they're the people you need to convince.
All we're getting out of the OWS protests is a bunch of complaints, and accompanying slogans. It's like the assumption from the OWS movement is that if they yell "End Corporate Greed", I'll intrinsically agree with them, and join the cause. While I may sympathize with the sentiment, you need to do a lot more to convince me of the alternatives. Does anybody know what these alternatives are? OWS participants certainly haven't been able to articulate any. And sorry, but referring me to your social justice library to read up on the issues is just lazy on your part. As a supposed protester, it's YOUR job to create awareness.
Much of this stems from the lack of true leadership. Good leaders provide direction and inspiration. They have the charisma to persuade others that their cause is just. MLK was the master at this. He could take a complex vision, articulate it in a way that his audiences could understand, and lay out a road ahead that was navigable regardless of the institutional obstacles. THIS is what the OWS is lacking, and why it too will fade into obscurity.
Always remember, that a ship without a rudder goes nowhere. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by infinity HiGH
That's assuming "we" have that much influence, which "we" don't. Money talks, and at the end of the day it's the corporations with millions of dollars for lobbyists that have the influence and get to shape the system, not "us" |
But who gave these corporations the millions of dollars? That’s right, we did, and freely. Let’s also not ignore the multitude of “we” lobbyists, such as unions and other special interest groups. Not as powerful perhaps as corporate lobbyists, but they’re still around. It’s also important to note that corporations are not hives, their lobbyists would frequently be at odds with each other because different corporations have different needs and preference. That said, of course there is too much money in the political system in the US. The recent supreme court decision on campaign funding certainly didn’t help either. |
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