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Occupy Toronto (pg. 23)
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| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
I may be mistaken but wasn't the biggest problem people had was the housing market crashed in the states and the value of the houses dropped significantly leaving people owing more then the house was worth? If this is the case then how is this the mortgage brokers fault? |
Many of the mortgages were adjustable rate mortgages, meaning the interest rate was small at the start but went up from there. The mortgage should have never been given unless the borrower was able to pay the highest rate. |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
It seems to me people were too quick to react. Would you sell all your shares in something because it took a loss in the stock market and then reinvest all your money back into the same stock at the lower price? |
paying your mortgage is not the same as owning stock in something.
it would be like be like being forced to pay a certain amount for the stock when it's prices is pennies now. why would you pay 6 bucks if the actual cost is 1. you want to pay 1. |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by 1dawoman
I majored in bio/health science in university. I've never taken a business or economics class in my life. When I turned to a trusted mortgage specialist at my bank, I was offered WAY more money to purchace a home than I thought was necessary based on my income. I was urged to put as little down as possible because I could take out a 30 year mortgage and therefore didn't need to "live on such a tight budget". This is the kind of BS that was fed to me by numerous employees at a number of financial institutions. I didn't listen to them luckily but I can see how a lot of vulnerable people would. And that's just scary. |
I'm sorry but what happened to doing your own research, getting a few different quotes/opinions and perhaps seeking more trusted advice then a mortgage broker interested in making a commission? There are a gazillion of online resources geared towards first-time (and not just first-time) home buyers! I'm not attacking you and I understand that you're using your situation as an example, but there is absolutely no excuse for people to plunge into a very expensive investment such as a home purchase, without doing any backgroud research. Just because all this money is available to them to borrow, doesn't make it THEIR money to spend! Same goes towards credit card debt. If a person cannot make more educated spending choices, then whose fault is that? No-one physically forces you to get a credit card or a line of credit, sure, you're lured into that but people need to start using their head a bit more..
A friend of mine was 20K into credit card debt because she was so into online shopping at one point that she just couldn't resist getting more and more retail credit cards. It was almost an addiction! Victoria's Secret, ebay stores, you name it. Once it hit her that she's on verge of bankrupcy, she realized that she has to pay all this eventually, that was a major wake-up call. And it was entirely her fault, and she knows it.
all of the above is an IMO, and once again - not trying to attack anyone :) |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
paying your mortgage is not the same as owning stock in something.
it would be like be like being forced to pay a certain amount for the stock when it's prices is pennies now. why would you pay 6 bucks if the actual cost is 1. you want to pay 1. |
when people got a mortgage for 400000 the value of the house was 400000. Investing in property is a risk investment, albeit a low risk investment usually. There is no guarantee that the investment will grow so I don't see how someone else is at fault for someone deciding they would rather get out now then ride it out for the length of the mortgage. I understand there are some situations that are unavoidable because of job loss, etc. but I can't feel for people who decided to get out just because their investment went sour. |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by infinity HiGH
To an extent it is. Most people don't have the time or mental capacity to "pick up a book and learn" all the loopholes that career financial advisers have created to screw the population over. Not when, as a society, we've been conditioned to believe an "experts" opinion practically as fact.
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not only that, but when do you actually know that you know enough. you don't know what you don't know. so when have you read enough books, how do you ever know you know enough. no one would ever do anything if we had to just learn about stuff. i bet the mortgage agents didn't know about either. it's the blind leading the blind. |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
Many of the mortgages were adjustable rate mortgages, meaning the interest rate was small at the start but went up from there. The mortgage should have never been given unless the borrower was able to pay the highest rate. |
not only that, but because of the system in place, the mortgage agents were taking bull proof of people even having a job at the moment and not vetting the information. or almost forcing people into cheating the system and showing them how to do it. |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
when people got a mortgage for 400000 the value of the house was 400000. Investing in property is a risk investment, albeit a low risk investment usually. There is no guarantee that the investment will grow so I don't see how someone else is at fault for someone deciding they would rather get out now then ride it out for the length of the mortgage. I understand there are some situations that are unavoidable because of job loss, etc. but I can't feel for people who decided to get out just because their investment went sour. |
you would honestly be an idiot to stay in an upside-down mortgage, even if you could pay. it was actually not people that couldn't pay that left their mortgages. it was people that could pay with cash for things.
lets say you have a 1 million dollar mortgage (and that's low for some of the inflated loans that people were getting). you paid 50 000 so far. you have investments and cash available to you at like 400000 lets say. way would you bother to pay that 1 million off (minus the 50000 and fees). when you can get your next house for basically cash and the easy life is yours. not pay a mortgage anymore, don't need good credit cuz you pay cash. you don't stay in a mortgage cuz you feel bad. you get the out if you can.
the poor people are who suffers in this. because they don't have the option to get the out.
the people walking away were the people that had money. they would be retarded not to. |
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| 1dawoman |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
I'm sorry but what happened to doing your own research, getting a few different quotes/opinions and perhaps seeking more trusted advice then a mortgage broker interested in making a commission? There are a gazillion of online resources geared towards first-time (and not just first-time) home buyers! I'm not attacking you and I understand that you're using your situation as an example, but there is absolutely no excuse for people to plunge into a very expensive investment such as a home purchase, without doing any backgroud research. Just because all this money is available to them to borrow, doesn't make it THEIR money to spend! |
I did my research and in the end made the right choice for me and did not overextend my budget but what I'm saying is that I was shocked to see how profit oriented the bankers were without any regards to actually helping me make a suitable informed decision. RBC/BMO/Scotia/CIBC...they were all the same...pushy, aggresive, deceiful. Anyways, overall my home buying experience last year was a huge eye-opening experience. I feel its too easy for people to be misguided and make decisions that can ruin their lives. I can also see how the people who are most vulnerable to these high pressure tactics are the elderly, new immigrants and less educated individuals whom I feel should be protected the most. I just can't believe there's no accountability. Someone mentioned earlier about how we use lawyers and doctor's expert opinions when making informed decision but I feel like profit lays so high on bank's priority list that it causes bankers to deliver jaded information. |
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| Skipper |
| Really, I think it's impossible to point just one finger. Everyone had a hand in this mess - the borrowers, the lenders, the banks and the rating agencies. |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by 1dawoman
I did my research and in the end made the right choice for me and did not overextend my budget but what I'm saying is that I was shocked to see how profit oriented the bankers were without any regards to actually helping me make a suitable informed decision. RBC/BMO/Scotia/CIBC...they were all the same...pushy, aggresive, deceiful. Anyways, overall my home buying experience last year was a huge eye-opening experience. I feel its too easy for people to be misguided and make decisions that can ruin their lives. I can also see how the people who are most vulnerable to these high pressure tactics are the elderly, new immigrants and less educated individuals whom I feel should be protected the most. I just can't believe there's no accountability. Someone mentioned earlier about how we use lawyers and doctor's expert opinions when making informed decision but I feel like profit lays so high on bank's priority list that it causes bankers to deliver jaded information. |
bingo. it's all about profits and getting that signature from you. "oh, no no, you don't need to worry about this part." "oh, that is there just in case but this will NEVER happen." |
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| GGM |
| quote: | Originally posted by infinity HiGH
And thus far nothing has been done to prevent this from happening again, which is something the Occupy movement is trying to change. |
That's what bugs me about the recession the most. By bailing out the banks so proactively they basically avoided getting rid of the causes to ensure it never happens again. It's the equivalent to you stepping on a nail in your floor, you go to the doctors to get it patched up, but you never fix that nail and it's only a matter of when you're back in the same spot.
The government was there to bailout the banks. But in the new currently dangerous situation the governments need bailing out and nobody is there. If you look at the austerity measures and insane interest on bailout money governments like Greece typically get when they need a bailout, how come the banks didn't have to go through the same? This in itself is proof that the governments serve the corporations which is essentially the reverse of what it should be. My hopes are this movement can help make people aware of this and at some point down the road change it for the better. |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
Really, I think it's impossible to point just one finger. Everyone had a hand in this mess - the borrowers, the lenders, the banks and the rating agencies. |
that's more realistic. it's just sad that some people do blame just the borrower without ever thinking of the lenders and banks and vice versa. |
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