Originally posted by jon jon
who knows if any change will come about from these protests, but either way i'm sure the super rich are paying attention to this very closely, that would make me sleep less comfortably that's for sure... it's so wild to see history repeating itself
I don't think the super rich are too worried...if need be they will just pay someone to get rid of the problem...its good to be rich.
Xavier Moriarty
quote:
Originally posted by jon jon
, but either way i'm sure the super rich are paying attention to this very closely, that would make me sleep less comfortably that's for sure
sure, they are shaking !!!
quote:
it's so wild to see history repeating itself
care to elaborate?
ChemEnhanced
quote:
Originally posted by Skipper
In Canada...I dunno. We have income disparity, but that's never going to go away. Nor should it. (There needs to be an incentive for higher education and harder work.) Highest earning Canadians pay the highest taxes, in both absolute dollars and percentage, and that contributes to the social benefits structure that many Canadians rely on. Everyone's got a beef about something but in Canada we have it pretty damn good.
+1
And no that the disparity is growing. The rich have more money to risk and they gain the benefits of risking that money.
ChemEnhanced
quote:
A handful of protesters took to the streets in Toronto Monday after a weekend of Occupy Canada demonstrations in more than a dozen cities across the country.
Early Monday, a group had planned a protest in the heart of Toronto's financial district.
A small group of protesters gathered in Toronto's financial district early Monday.A small group of protesters gathered in Toronto's financial district early Monday. (CBC)
But by 8 a.m., only a few dozen protesters had gathered in a peaceful protest at the corner of King and Bay streets.
One held a sign that said "Everybody Deserves their Fair Share." Another protester's sign said "Mother Earth Lives, Capitalism Dies."
The group that gathered in the financial district at first appeared to be separate from a larger group that camped overnight at St. James Park, where 50 to 60 tents were set up.
By 8:30 a.m., CBC's Trevor Dunn was reporting that "a few dozen" protesters had joined the group at King and Bay accompanied by police on bicycles. They gathered outside the Toronto Stock Exchange.
Protesters stayed on the sidewalks and even joked with police, Dunn reported.
A message posted on occupyto.org said there would also be a march and rally at Ryerson University later in the day.
That protest will likely be larger, Dunn reported, as it was planned ahead of time by the Occupy Toronto group.
The Canadian Occupy groups take inspiration from the Occupy Wall Street movement, which has been staging protests in New York for more than a month.
The protests are inspired by a grassroots movement that has spread to more than 80 countries and features demonstrations against global financial inequality and corporate greed.
I think this says it all for the commitment people have for the cause.
GGM
To those saying there's no clear purpose or drive behind the protests I think you're looking at this situation way too black and white. The things they are protesting against are so varied by nature that by saying "this is our enemy" they would be limiting their effectiveness altogether. It's against some aspects of government, corporations, the rich, and an overall imbalance in power that these select few have over the rest. How can you sum that up with a single clear enemy?
As for their goals, I think at this point it is merely awareness. The fact this is all over the media, has a thread on here, has people talking about it in person are all proof that the protests are actually working in creating awareness. Hard to fault them for achieving this when the fact we are discussing it is proof in itself it's accomplishing something.
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Originally posted by The Highroller
As you can see, income disparity is growing fast in Canada. Furthermore, the concentration of wealth among the rich is a global problem: a problem that people all around the world are getting fed up with.
Absolutely, when I was reading this thread and saw people saying Canadians have no reason to protest this is one of the first things I thought of. We have a quickly shrinking middle class, increased corporate powers and their influence on government, and a huge body of people and groups who are aiming to take this country in the direction of our neighbours to the south. So if you disagree with the rest but do agree that the Americans have a reason to protest just remember that we could easily be in their shoes down the road. Why not be proactive and try to stop that from happening, instead of waiting for disaster to strike then saying "ok lets go protest now that has hit the fan". If the majority of Canadians + our politicians were against the Americanization of our country then I'd agree with people on this logic. But when our majority leader openly says things indicating he'd like us to match the Americans on many issues then people should be able to understand that what has/is happening down there could easily happen up here.
The fact we have such a strong and safe economy but were still so heavily affected by the recession is even more of a reason to protest. If Canadians were at zero fault then how come I can see a clear difference between now and 3 years ago where people are working harder, being paid less, and looking for a job to pay the bills is so much harder?
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Originally posted by Skipper
People don't realize if the US banking system fails then we're looking at a second great depression. I'd characterize you as one of these people.
YES American financial institutions gambled and lost. YES they were bailed out after many people at the top got rich. But to allow them to go under would be catastrophic for absolutely everyone, including every single one of those people protesting.
Totally agree with you. But using the same logic I think that people with your viewpoint could just as easily support the movement. Ask yourself how such large greedy corporations were given the power to control the fate of the States with their success or failure? Why should such large consequences be in their hands? If I was American I wouldn't be so upset about the fact they were bailed out for the reasons you stated. However, I would be just as pissed at the fact they were allowed to have such an influential presence in the way my country was run and therefore needed to be bailed out to avoid disaster.
My stance as a Canadian on this is that pre-recession our banks were slowly being deregulated in a direction towards what was taking place in the States. Some of that deregulation was reversed and halted mid recession as politicians realized the disaster it could create. But, if the recession were to happen 10 or 15 years later than it did I wouldn't be surprised if our banks were in the same situation and needed a bailout of their own.
Also keep in mind that the original great depression created an enormous set of regulations for American banks that were to prevent a repeat of what went down. Unfortunately the reasons those were created had long been forgotten and they were being removed from the late 70s right up until the recession which created the environment for them to take place. The way the banks were bailed out so easily avoided the re-creating of those regulations and I'm sure on this path the States will be do for another bubble not so far down the road. Two things I can think of would have changed the banking system to avoid this in the future. Heavy regulation similar to what we have here, or to some degree nationalization of the actual banks. Neither one took place and it'll be a matter of time before corporate greed reigns supreme with risks again and everyone is back in the same situation.
nacarter
Awareness is all fine and good, but the problem becomes message overload. Many of these protesters criticize the media for bombarding cosumers with advertising. Isn't this the same thing? At the end of the day, the message is SO muddled, that nobody can figure out what end state you want to achieve. That's called mission failure. Civil rights - clear message, clear goal. Same-sex marriage - clear message, clear goal. Arab Spring - clear message, clear goal. Time for the activist class to get out of the Fred Phelps School of Signmaking and actually spend some time strategizing, prioritizing and unifying.
LightsOut
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Originally posted by The Highroller
For those wondering what people have to protest about in Canada
Great read, definitely something I could get behind. If this was the unilateral message of the protests, I'd be all for it.
Jayx1
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Originally posted by DeleteFromUsers
None of what you said is valid. You've missed the point. Completely. As always. Again.
As a libertarian, you've forgotten that your success, your health, your freedom was fought for, won, and maintained on the back of the society in which you live. You are not an island. You are personally completely, totally, and inclusively incapable of producing the goods which sustain your very breath, maintain your personal safety, and protect your "freedom." As am I, as is everyone reading this message. You demonize the word "socialism" despite sipping from the very same goblet of "socialism" that sustains you and every other Canadian.
Everyone else who has contributed to this thread has had something worthwhile to say. Only you come here with your own personal idiotic, ignorant, fantasy agenda and take a useful discussion into a rotting cesspool of irrelevant digression.
Idiot.
God forbid I actually have some clear and concise ideas.
Since when does discussing stuff on these forums get so personal anyways?
No wonder i dont come here much anymore
Yohan
quote:
Originally posted by nacarter
Awareness is all fine and good, but the problem becomes message overload. Many of these protesters criticize the media for bombarding cosumers with advertising. Isn't this the same thing? At the end of the day, the message is SO muddled, that nobody can figure out what end state you want to achieve. That's called mission failure. Civil rights - clear message, clear goal. Same-sex marriage - clear message, clear goal. Arab Spring - clear message, clear goal. Time for the activist class to get out of the Fred Phelps School of Signmaking and actually spend some time strategizing, prioritizing and unifying.
like I said, it's just loud noises at this point
only clear message i'm getting is that some people are really pissed off, but just how constructive is that message in bringing change?
jchung52
Great they are protesting for a "cause" but if the issue is corporate greed and equality, well how many of these protesters buy products that feed the greed?
ChemEnhanced
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Originally posted by jchung52
Great they are protesting for a "cause" but if the issue is corporate greed and equality, well how many of these protesters buy products that feed the greed?
very true...if they really wanted to make a point they would boycott product by these greedy companies.
hardcore trancer
Great interview and great answers by David Suzuki.
