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Occupy Toronto (pg. 33)
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| GGM |
| quote: | Originally posted by LightsOut
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This guy/girl is a tool. Scolarships are generally given to the top percentile of some sort of determining qualification regardless of how you do on your own. Without those scholarships he/she'd be in "the 99%" of having debt just to get through school. Seems kind of selfish to be in the small portion of people who were lucky enough to get the scholarships, then say F the rest because they don't qualify. |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by GGM
This guy/girl is a tool. Scolarships are generally given to the top percentile of some sort of determining qualification regardless of how you do on your own. Without those scholarships he/she'd be in "the 99%" of having debt just to get through school. Seems kind of selfish to be in the small portion of people who were lucky enough to get the scholarships, then say F the rest because they don't qualify. |
by lucky you mean better than the rest of people applying for scholarships, because they worked their ass off to get that scholarship? did you think that maybe this person wouldn't even go to college if they couldn't secure the scholarship? have you ever gotten a scholarship to be so judgmental? |
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| GGM |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
how is this a good idea? never mind the fact that this was discussed already
banks crash and burn = you are ed
it would be YOUR money your savings your pension that gets wiped out
it kills me that people can even think like this! |
It's true to a degree but a lot of that general feeling is due to lobbying of the public via media and fear of the unknown in general.
One situation that was completely swept under the rug (for very understandable reasons, many corporations don't want you to know it's ok if they burn) is what happened in Iceland. Basically they were the one country that said "NO" and opted to not bailout the banks, just letting them fail. New banks were created to carry on the operations of of the former ones and the old ones were left with their massive debt and bad assets to go through the standard bankruptcy procedure. So to the average citizen there was no impact on their banking activities as the new government legislated banks did what the old ones would have. The biggest hit to the country was the interest rate jacking, courtesy of the IMF. It was moderately messy but they've come out of it alright for the most part.
End result is you're left with a country which now has tighter regulated banks and no where near as much debt as they would have if they had just given money to their banks like everyone else. The opposite comparison would be the States where the government bailed out the banks quite willingly, and as a result are now screwed in debt themselves. So if you compare the 2 time frames Iceland has already nicely recovered from a similar situation whereas the US is potentially entering their second wave of economic problems and could end up much much worse.
I think people are afraid of letting the banks fail because it's the unknown and we're constantly told we'd be screwed. But if you look at the only example of it happening it's worked quite well. |
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| GGM |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
by lucky you mean better than the rest of people applying for scholarships, because they worked their ass off to get that scholarship? did you think that maybe this person wouldn't even go to college if they couldn't secure the scholarship? have you ever gotten a scholarship to be so judgmental? |
By lucky I meant lucky. Not trying to be judgemental but what I was saying is that only the top percentile in certain areas are given scholarships. He can score that 3.8 GPA but if enough other people got a 3.9 then that would be real bad luck and he'd be in debt.
So lets say only the top 5% get scholarships. If he worked harder than 95% of people to get it, good for him. But because he received it means one person in that 95% won't. There's only X amount of scholarship money to be disbursed per year and that doesn't increase a penny if everyone gets a 4.0.
In short, good for him for working so hard and getting the scholarship. I really do applaud that. But if that's what mainly kept him from being in debt then he's really ting on the other people who didn't get one. IMO from his attitude he fits in the 1% by saying "well it's not my problem and because of this, deal with it yourselves.". Maybe the next person is just as hardworking but wasn't born with the IQ needed to get the scholarship. It's brutal when you see someone say "screw that guy, not my problem." just because they have something he didn't. |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by GGM
I think people are afraid of letting the banks fail because it's the unknown and we're constantly told we'd be screwed. But if you look at the only example of it happening it's worked quite well. |
I think the major issue is that you can't jump from one extreme to another - it's definitely not a simple system so completely derailing it wouldn't do a lot of people any good
post-USSR era is something I remember very vividly - aside from the massive inflation, and devaluation of rubl, a huge % of people (my parents and grandparents included) lost ALL of their bank-held savings - in the form of investment papers (I forget their proper name)... that investment bubble blew up and it wasn't pretty
I don't think my parents have had a bank account since then! People have no faith in banks until this day - even with a bunch of newer, younger banks
that is why to me, letting the banks fail, sounds like a complete economical and financial chaos
| quote: | Originally posted by GGM
Maybe the next person is just as hardworking but wasn't born with the IQ needed to get the scholarship. It's brutal when you see someone say "screw that guy, not my problem." just because they have something he didn't. |
well I think it's fair to say that if the other person wasn't smart enough to get the scholarship it's def no one else's problem or fault :) we live in a competitive world, and that's how it works - having said I don't get the sense that he's saying "screw others" - I think he's explaining as to why he doesn't want to be swept in with the rest of the 99%'ers
his last line "...and whether or not YOU are, it's YOU decision" I think says it really well |
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| LightsOut |
Just threw that pic up to play devils advocate lol
Can't say I necessarily agree or disagree, but one thing that's certain is whoever that person was, is definitely a hard worker and I'm sure they'll do alright for themselves. |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by LightsOut
Just threw that pic up to play devils advocate lol
Can't say I necessarily agree or disagree, but one thing that's certain is whoever that person was, is definitely a hard worker and I'm sure they'll do alright for themselves. |
disturber :P
and I agree with you :) |
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| GGM |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
well I think it's fair to say that if the other person wasn't smart enough to get the scholarship it's def no one else's problem or fault :) we live in a competitive world, and that's how it works - having said I don't get the sense that he's saying "screw others" - I think he's explaining as to why he doesn't want to be swept in with the rest of the 99%'ers
his last line "...and whether or not YOU are, it's YOU decision" I think says it really well |
That is true, and I honestly think the 99% thing is somewhat BS anyways. But he's really taking this movement for solely it's materialistic sense. To him it's about money/debt/assets and what you can accomplish through hard work but in reality it's much bigger than that.
Lets see this guy graduates debt free, gets a job, finds a wife, buys a house, has kids etc. Well even if he remained as debt free as possible chances are he's carrying a mortgage and needs incoming monthly money to support the family. Boom his job is cut mid-recession for reasons completely outside his control. Might be the hardest working guy in the field but say it's a specialized job and he can't find one in the 10% + unemployed economy. He joins the massive amount of people unemployed for 26 weeks and longer (very undesirable on a resume) and EI is running out with his kids' future on the line. Is he stillllll not part of the 99%?
Right from the start I knew the media would smear campaign these protesters as much as possible because the media is part of the problem being protested against. Just amazing the best they could do is classify them as lazy, greedy people who want more than they have and say that they lack a clearly unified goal. Even more amazing that people like the guy who wrote the sign bit into the bad PR hook line and sinker. |
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| LightsOut |
and......the rebuttal.
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| GGM |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
that is why to me, letting the banks fail, sounds like a complete economical and financial chaos
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Absolutely, and if done in the same regard it would be a disaster here. But there is a middle ground between outright letting them fail and fully bailing them out, that's what Iceland went with and it worked pretty well for them. |
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| GGM |
| quote: | Originally posted by LightsOut
and......the rebuttal.
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Massive wall of text but ya that pretty much sums up what I was trying to say. Good for the guy, but he's really missing the point and being a dick about it at the same time. |
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| LightsOut |
| Instead of just bailing them out, the US government should have bought them out and therefor owned them outright. This would have prevented the big crash everyone feared and they could have then restructured and regulated as they saw fit. And, when everything was stable again, they could have sold them off for a killing. I know it was discussed as an option at length, but its a shame it never went through. |
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