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Occupy Toronto (pg. 34)
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| jon jon |
| in Europe is getting nutso, Greek referendum! :nervous: :nervous: |
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| LightsOut |
| quote: | Originally posted by jon jon
in Europe is getting nutso, Greek referendum! :nervous: :nervous: |
Seriously. I think its BS they even get to have a referendum tbh. The EU is giving them billions to stabilize their economy and even a detailed plan to get their in line, and they aren't even happy with that. |
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| jon jon |
| I think it has to do with the Greek Gov't trying to pawn off the responsibility |
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| LightsOut |
| For sure. But when it gets struck down in the referendum and they get booted from the EU, we'll see how happy they are then lol |
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| jon jon |
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| 1dawoman |
| quote: | Originally posted by LightsOut
and......the rebuttal.
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Excellent rebuttal imo. |
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| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by jon jon
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Great share! |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by GGM
One situation that was completely swept under the rug (for very understandable reasons, many corporations don't want you to know it's ok if they burn) is what happened in Iceland. Basically they were the one country that said "NO" and opted to not bailout the banks, just letting them fail. New banks were created to carry on the operations of of the former ones and the old ones were left with their massive debt and bad assets to go through the standard bankruptcy procedure. So to the average citizen there was no impact on their banking activities as the new government legislated banks did what the old ones would have. The biggest hit to the country was the interest rate jacking, courtesy of the IMF. It was moderately messy but they've come out of it alright for the most part. |
firstly, iceland went BANKRUPT because they invested heavily in mortgage backed securities (as i understand it, this was the fault of the government, not banks). if there was one country that got ed more than any other in the GFC, it was iceland. secondly, what iceland did was vote not to pay back the people that invested in their country (from memory primarily british investors). we could all make a lot of money if we chose not to pay back what we owe! i suspect the "interest rate jacking" was courtesy of the realisation that iceland had more risk attached to it because they decided not to pay their debts? nice for some i guess.
| quote: | Originally posted by GGM
End result is you're left with a country which now has tighter regulated banks and no where near as much debt as they would have if they had just given money to their banks like everyone else. |
as above; everyone can avoid debt if they choose not to pay what they owe. how is that a success?
| quote: | Originally posted by GGM
The opposite comparison would be the States where the government bailed out the banks quite willingly, and as a result are now screwed in debt themselves. |
the impact of economic bailouts on the US debt burden is negligible at best. of course the US could do what iceland did, and decide not to pay back its debts, how do you think that would impact world markets?
| quote: | Originally posted by GGM
So if you compare the 2 time frames Iceland has already nicely recovered from a similar situation whereas the US is potentially entering their second wave of economic problems and could end up much much worse. |
if you compare the 2 accurately i would think the apples look different to the oranges ;) |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| so are people still camping out? |
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| Spam |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
so are people still camping out? |
I read the tents are empty, and the protesters come back in the morning. |
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| FunkyCrew |
The “Occupy Whatever” movement bound to accomplish nothing — or “What’s your point?”
| quote: | The “Occupy” movement continues to baffle me. I’m not old enough to have participated in the civil rights movement and the anti-war campaign of the 1960s and ’70s. But as a historian of modern times I’ve tried to understand these events and they had one important thing going for them that we do not see today: focus.
Not always, of course. May 1968 saw the boiling over of a lot of inchoate rage in Europe, and a lot of what happened in he United States was also just a lot of adolescent self-differentiation from Mom and Dad. But there was actual decolonization to support, ugly racism and sexism to attack, blatant hypocrisy to expose, and a war to protest.
The “Occupiers” today instead seem upset with one or another item on the long, list of What’s Wrong with the World. And to that I say, ‘So what?’
You camp out in public for a few weeks and give loud speeches to each other and argue between meals about, well, whatever. But to what purpose? What would constitute a successful outcome of your movement, besides the sudden arrival of Happy Valley everywhere for everyone?
The occupation of St. Paul’s Cathedral in London seemed to me especially preposterous and in several respects.
First, how much courage does it take to occupy a churchyard and stare down befuddled clergy and tourists? By inconveniencing mainly good people you have struck a blow for nothing.
Second, what century do the protesters think they’re in? The era in which the Church of England played an important role in British politics and society has been gone for ages. It’s like finding Mom and Dad much too powerful to deal with, so as soon as they tell you to shut up and shove off, as the London Stock Exchange did, you find old Uncle Charlie, quietly resting in his rocking chair under his favourite quilt, and you park yourself at his feet and start yelling at him.
Third, and along these same lines, what did you Occupiers expect to happen once you camped out at St. Paul’s? That the Dean of the Cathedral would convene an emergency meeting of the movers and shakers in the City for a prayer meeting, that they would be cut to the quick by your sharply worded placards and prophetic tenting, and that they then would emerge onto the portico of St. Paul’s with cheques and jobs for everyone and promises of never, ever being bad and self-seeking ever again?
Fourth, this movement seems to me almost entirely an exercise in self-indulgence. You get to do something you perceive as brave, when all you’re doing is simply trying the patience of powerful people and more or less hampering the lives of decent people trying to get on with their lives. And once the powerful have had enough, they’ll send in the cops and off you’ll scatter.
You get to state something you perceive as startling, when all you’re doing is stating the obvious. Friends, it’s not news that a minority have most of the money and power in the world. That’s been true since time began.
If you want the powerful to change, you must either persuade them or coerce them. How is plunking yourself down and making a nuisance of yourself for a few weeks going to effect either outcome? And how, in particular, is it going to either win over, or push around, the powerful by lolling about in the way of tourists and worshippers at St. Paul’s — or, here at home in Vancouver, in the way of patrons of the local art gallery?
I can’t imagine real radicals, serious advocates for social change, thinking this project will accomplish anything. The Occupy movement itself makes social protest look just ridiculous.
The world is a serious place with serious problems. Greece’s prime minister may resign at any moment in the midst of economic chaos. Repression is a matter of state policy in dozens of countries affecting millions upon millions of innocent people. Tax regimes make it far too easy for rich people to concentrate even more of the world’s wealth in fewer hands. Meanwhile, prostitution, slavery, drug trafficking, arms dealing, genocide, abortion, euthanasia, environmental despoliation and exploitation, torture, corruption proceed apace around the globe. But what are these protests doing about any of these very real issues?
It would better to pick a single issue and focus that would focus your energy. Don’t like the international sex-trafficking trade? Join the International Justice Mission and fight. Don’t like the fact that millions of people are starving to death? Link up with World Vision. Don’t see a group doing what ought to be done about this or that? Start one.
But don’t settle for the excitement of a vigorous cursing of the darkness. The darkness doesn’t care a penny about your curses. It will still be there long after you’ve shouted yourself hoarse. |
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