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Kosovo - Independent Coutry...WTF?!?! (pg. 24)
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| TheVrk |
| removed post....i refuse to comment i decided |
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| zokissima |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stilez
Will someone please answer my question?
Why are people in the thread saying that they hate the U.S.? What's the U.S's role in all of this? or is it simply because they support and recognize Kosovo as a legitimate country now?
I ask because I want some insight on the whole situation. I'm far from being pro-American, just wondering why they don't say I hate England, France, etc.. or any of the other countries that also support Kosovo.
Thanks.
btw..thx for the translation :) |
You're asking for a nutshell explanation of the last 20 years of anti-communist expansionism, even after the fall of the Soviet Union. If you want somewhere to start, that's about a good a place as it gets. For the entirety of the 50s, 60s and 70s, the land held by former Yugoslavia was eyeballed by the west as an ideal staging area were a war with eastern nations to start. Thus after the fall of communism, many argue that an ideal situation presented itself for US forces to finally get in on territorries they had thus far had no access to. This is really a loose generalization, and there are a lot more issues at play, but it strikes at the heart of the hatred felt towards the US, as they played a key role in the arming of opposing parties, and then the unilateral forced 'disarming' of the same parties, effectively saving themselves the neccessity of a ground-pounder war by playing a middle-of-the-road role and aggravating the tensions felt between the differing ethnic backgrounds found in this 'powder keg' as RJ so put it. |
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| zokissima |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
Both of these sound like you are calling the whole area a "bunch of savages" but when it comes from you, it's not as bad because you are from there?
Be consistant.
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Going out and blatantly calling everyone in there, from all sides "savages" is a bit too much IMO. It really throws a ridiculous generalization that does not even come close explaining the reasons and background of the area of dispute.
The furthest I was willing to go in my generalization was to say that everyone in that area had some role to play in the situation unfolding itself today. When others started throwing in references re the ethnic background contestion between the Serb/Croat/Muslim, it is only fair that their own fallacy and ignorance of argument is pointed out. |
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| zokissima |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
It is noble to be patriotic, so I understand why people get up in arms when their cultures are scrutinized. Unfortunately, the scrutiny is sometimes valid. |
The issue faced by this thread, the one faced by Serbs now is not a matter of scrutiny of our culture. As pointed out by others in this thread, Canada and Canadians, America and Americans, would not be any less upset if Quebec or California, respectively, were to separate. Unfortunately, a conversation regarding ANY issue from the balkans inevitably tends to roll around to the contention between the ethnic backgrounds, thus my initial reaction at Anita, Special, et al about making stupid comments that are way out of the scope of this discussion, and present a retardedly skewed picture of what the issues were/are. And what's worse, those are the FIRST and ONLY comments they made regarding this issue. Hardly worth replying to in polite terms. |
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| thesauce23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by jsibilin
If i had a choice in believing in something or believing in nothing,, i would choose nothing.. |
exactly. thats true freedom. no attachments |
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| zokissima |
| quote: | Originally posted by MikeyN
*edit: i withdraw my previous statement in this post, after thinking, "what if someone had taken a part of croatia away from us" |
lol maybe after the comment above people could see why TiestoSux was so upset. None of you would react any different in this situation, and claiming to be objective just doesn't cut it all the time. |
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| TheVrk |
| quote: | Originally posted by zokissima
Going out and blatantly calling everyone in there, from all sides "savages" is a bit too much IMO. |
To be fair he never said everyone was a savage, but that all sides had their "fair share" of savages. |
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| zokissima |
| quote: | Originally posted by AnitA
An idiot for speaking the truth eh?
I'm just saying it as it was back then!
I have Serb friends too, agree to disagree jebate! Samo govorim kako je bilo kad su komunjare vladali, vjerovatno ti ne razumijes!
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Actually, I called you an idiot because you made an idiotic comment, not because you spoke the truth.
1) You took this thread to a direction it obviously did not need to go to, a direction that all threads of this sort inevitably do however. You claimed some skewed acclaim of KARMA, so if you want to speak of karma or other like that, do not merely look at the injustices done to yours, but also be straightforward and honest enough to look at the injustices done BY yours.
2) You spoke up out of context of the discussion, totally skewing whatever point you were trying to make.
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Spoken like a true Jug! Vidi se kako si pametan i kulturan!
Nisu hrvati nista htjeli 'zajednicki' s vama i zivit u nepravdi!!
Hvala Bogu sto smo se oslobodili od te vrazije juge!
Ajde ne seri o taktiki kad znas vrlo dobro da i tvoji nisu bili sveci u prvom i drugom ratu - it takodjer danas - hocete sve na silu, otvori oci covjece - niste vise gospodar i nikad vise necete biti!
Molim te, dosta vise, dojadilo mi je vec citat ovo sranje!
:D |
First, just as you so put in the comment above, I have Croat friends as well, and do understand many differing prespectives that have come about from communist rule, and all I can say is that you hardly speak for a majority of people. What I find laughably sad right now is the fact that over the last decades your ethnic backgrounds have shifted their views and allegiances to whatever suited them best at the time, but have claimed that you "felt this way all along". However, my own opinions do not come from having different friends, but come from my own knowledge and research.
Second, I never claimed one side to be innocent. However, your "Karma" comment implied that very directly, and you go on to say that it is deserving because of the injustices committed in the past. All I did was point out the fact that the injustices were committed by your side as well, and your KARMA comment is just plain stupid. There really is hardly anything you can reply to this, because there is nothing you can say that won't bring up some reference to the past, thus you'd be repeating yourself, ad infinitum. Your past injustices are the only thing that give you any hope of legitimacy, but due to your own barbaric behaiviour (hardly the only ones so don't jump on this) that legitimacy is thin and transparent at best. Thus why I said in the begining, don't make this a Serb/Croat thing, and leave it to the two of you (Special K) to make the first comments in this tread referencing that. |
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| Dr. DAS |
I don't know much about the current situation in Kosovo, but I was on the list to do a tour with KFOR there in 99/00.
If there was enough support for a seperatist movement to successfully declare independance, then good for them - provided Kosovo becomes a democratic state. I wont claim to understand fully the position of the detractors on this thread, or to have read the thread fully, but if this is a legal and internationally recognized spereation, then more power to them. |
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| TheVrk |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
The whole region has had it's fair share of savages (on all sides).
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| Dr. DAS |
| Attacking a US Embassy is bad news for everyone. |
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| TheVrk |
| quote: | Originally posted by zokissima
1) You took this thread to a direction it obviously did not need to go to, a direction that all threads of this sort inevitably do however. You claimed some skewed acclaim of KARMA, so if you want to speak of karma or other like that, do not merely look at the injustices done to yours, but also be straightforward and honest enough to look at the injustices done BY yours. |
Don't go there, let's not do this...PLEASE let's not do this
We know how it is in the Balkans, and how ED some of our people are.
The lunatic, psycho Croatians are ED ppl, but its by far the minority.
Most of you know i left my birthplace of Canada to live in Croatia - that shows just how much i love this in place and my ppl.
And i KNOW there are ed up-psycho-maniac Croatian seljaci....but by FAR the minority.
I'm one who believes that its the exact same case in Serbia.
As in Croatia, there are ed up-psycho-maniac Serbs in the selo as well..but also by far the minority.
Its these 2 groups of ppl that HATE each other's ppl and everything about them...they're so ed they'd kill
the other's if they ever got a chance
---> Why do we let these VAST minorites, who are generally uneducated and uncivilised, get the best of us??? WHY???
FFS it makes no sense...if we're educated, more open-minded, more free-spirited, and actually civilised, why do we let this happen???
Our generation SHOULD be better than that:whip:
This is the case EVERYWHERE in the world (see the Muslims), the problem is, these ed up-idiot-psycho-maniacs are the ones that everyone sees on the news.
Last night was a typical example.
On CNN International there was 2+ consecutive hrs of coverage of Beograd, and 98% of it was focused on these hooligans.
Several hundred idiots causing in Beograd.
They'd flash to 15 secs of 150 000-300 000 ppl (maybe more? conflicting estimates) having a mass vigil praying for peace
in front of their cathedral...in peace, civilised...
So...ballpark : 500-1000 VS 150 000-300 000, maybe 1 000 000
Same deal in the Muslim world, we see all the idiots, when the vast majority of Muslims just want peace
and stability and a nice life...not the destruction of Israel and mass murdering ppl to become "martyrs".
And then ppl wonder why such passionate, hateful rhetoric comes out afterwards.
| quote: |
First, just as you so put in the comment above, I have Croat friends as well, and do understand many differing prespectives that have come about from communist rule, and all I can say is that you hardly speak for a majority of people. |
Listen bro honestly, the VAST majority of Croats (95+%) were/are COMPLETELY against the old communist system.
Why else did so many (including both my parents) emigrate post-WWII til 1990? Opression
Certainly not because they had a great life and economic prosperity
| quote: |
What I find laughably sad right now is the fact that over the last decades your ethnic backgrounds have shifted their views and allegiances to whatever suited them best at the time, but have claimed that you "felt this way all along". |
Don't they call that politics?
Every country in history has changed political views many, MANY times for their personal interest.
even political parties see-saw their policies/views for their own interest or just to get votes.
Also, we have to take into account that political leaders change quite often, and the agendas of the country or party they rule do in turn.
This applies to EVERY country (and party for that matter), ESPECIALLY the countries at the centre of this political conflict like the
U.S., Russia, China, the UK, France, Italy etc etc... |
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