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Kosovo - Independent Coutry...WTF?!?! (pg. 39)
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| afterhrsgurl |
| quote: | Originally posted by thesauce23
ah ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh are you spying on me?:mad:
if you are, then |
always...you're the one i analyze :tongue3 |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by afterhrsgurl
shut it Yohan or i'll pour some sljivovica down your throat! :stongue: |
quiet you.
or you might turn me on with all the slivo talk :toothless |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by zokissima
I never expected others to argue with me in terms and formats that I understand. That is why at the least I go through the trouble of replying with more than witty one-linders, in a hope that those arguing with me will do the same, and in detail post their position and reasoning. Perhaps in that way we could have reached some sort of common understanding. Most of the posts from your bf hardly suffice. |
lol.
I don't know how much more clear people can be to you.
I also don't know if anyone has ever told you that your writing style is very difficult to understand sometimes. Your arguments are not clear. I really don't want to make this about your writing style so I will just stop (don't get insulted by it).
You take there clear points and say it's more complex than that. So do you want clear or including all the complexities?
The fact is I don't think you even know what you are arguing about.
I got what I wanted from this thread. I learned more about the situation and I learned peoples views. I think it's time to stop it. Let's just do updates on what is actually going on there right now.
What goals do you want to achieve? You want all of us to all of a sudden stop thinking that the area is full of violence and that it's all great people and everyone should visit? Or do you just want to prove that you are a patriot that never backs down? Do you want us to know that there are reasons for violence? Do you want to change people's opinions? |
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by zokissima
your initial post stated your position clearly; that of an uninformed biggot. |
Hurling lame insults in attempt to lure? Impressive to say the least. Speaks much to your character. Kudos. Very simplistic, mind you.
You might be frustrated because I choose not to re-compose every point I've made in this thread into a complex dissertation or reply to novel-length tirades - but laying insults isn't very courteous in the discussion/debate circles. |
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| thesauce23 |
| quote: | Originally posted by afterhrsgurl
always...you're the one i analyze :tongue3 |
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| Ania_xox |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
Blind patriotism only means more violence.
History has proven this time and time over.
Nationalism is an emotional response, rarely logical one. Just look at people who followed fascism and ultranationalists. They all wave the flag too, and all the wrongs they've done are in the name of the fatherland or motherland. And so many people take up arms to defend a govt that is corrupt, and evil, all in the name of the fatherland.
I quite understand why the Serbs are upset over Kosovo. I'd be pissed if I was a Serb and someone took away land that pretty much defined Serb nationhood.
But patriotism and nationalism isn't going to change the fact that Kosovo isn't Serbia |
I understand what you're saying Yohan and I'm obviously not advocating arbitrary violence.
Patriotism kept my country alive during the 400+ years that it ceased to exist on the map of europe. Polonia was annexed time and time again by bordering nations. We had no official land of our own, the teaching of our language was denigrated, the domestic politics were littered with foreign monarchs - but the people plowed on (literally lol) believing that one day they would see Poland again as an independent republic. They didn't live to see it - but I am the fruit of their struggles - as f*cking corny as that sounds. So in spite of the negative truths that you just posted about historical consequences of "blind patriotism" - I will never ever believe that patriotism (different from nationalism) only brings about death and violence. Anyway whatever this isn't about Polska...
I just think that in order to have a COMPREHENSIVE UNDERSTANDING of this crisis - these kind of cognitive concepts need to be understood as the fuel of most of the conflict. Whether anyone thinks it's wrong or right - it's there. It has been and it will be.
Unless you understand what it's like to possess these feelings of patriotism and how they control you and your actions - you are not fit to judge the situation. (YOU = 2nd person impersonal, not YOU Yo-yo-han :toocool: ) |
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| miljan |
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| afterhrsgurl |
| lol we'll keep that in mind miljan :toothless |
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| zokissima |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
What goals do you want to achieve? You want all of us to all of a sudden stop thinking that the area is full of violence and that it's all great people and everyone should visit? Or do you just want to prove that you are a patriot that never backs down? Do you want us to know that there are reasons for violence? Do you want to change people's opinions? |
One of the earliest posts you made was in reference to your lack of understanding of the violence that surrounds the area, and further the lack of understanding to the pain expressed by TiestoSux. My comments in reply to yours were aiming to demonstrate that due to a long history surrounding this geographical area, most of the violence and emotional attachment make perfect sense.
You are right that in a lot of ways my arguments did weave in and out, however, there were many many different points to which I responded. The Serb/Croat issue, objectivity, and the aforementioned questions you posed. Granted, replying to all three of these can become convoluted if you were trying to follow along with each post. |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ania_xox
I understand what you're saying Yohan and I'm obviously not advocating arbitrary violence.
Patriotism kept my country alive during the 400+ years that it ceased to exist on the map of europe. Polonia was annexed time and time again by bordering nations. We had no official land of our own, the teaching of our language was denigrated, the domestic politics were littered with foreign monarchs - but the people plowed on (literally lol) believing that one day they would see Poland again as an independent republic. They didn't live to see it - but I am the fruit of their struggles - as f*cking corny as that sounds. So in spite of the negative truths that you just posted about historical consequences of "blind patriotism" - I will never ever believe that patriotism (different from nationalism) only brings about death and violence. Anyway whatever this isn't about Polska... |
Patriotism is nationalism... At least in the minds of most people.
But the blind patriotism I speak of isn't about national struggle, but that of people who use patriotism and nationalism to push their own agenda which usually involves some sort of violence. I think I should have made this more clear.
| quote: |
I just think that in order to have a COMPREHENSIVE UNDERSTANDING of this crisis - these kind of cognitive concepts need to be understood as the fuel of most of the conflict. Whether anyone thinks it's wrong or right - it's there. It has been and it will be.
Unless you understand what it's like to possess blind feelings of patriotism and how they control you and your actions - you are not fit to judge the situation. (YOU = 2nd person impersonal, not YOU Yo-yo-han :toocool: ) |
Actually, I was raised pretty much indoctrinated in nationalism, taught to hate communism and all that. When I was in elementary school, there was actually a class that taught kids about nationalism, sense of patriotism and all that. A bit too much (but not enough in Canada)
Until I read a bit more and learned a bit more, I didn't understand beyond a sense of nationalism, and everything my country is doing is right. So when I read about the Korean War, and the fact that so called 'democratic' govt of South Korea (which really was a form of dictatorship) was responsible for some really gruesome things, it was a shock.
So I perfectly understand the outrage of Serbs. Heck, if I was a Serb and the land that pretty much defines Serbian nationhood got taken away, I'd be pissed too.
But this doesn't change the fact that all this emotional outburst isn't going to change the reality of the situation. Kosovo isn't Serbia. Objectivity has its own faults, but emotions are far worse
Yes, I know you weren't replying directly to me, Ania ;) |
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| zokissima |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
Hurling lame insults in attempt to lure? Impressive to say the least. Speaks much to your character. Kudos. Very simplistic, mind you.
You might be frustrated because I choose not to re-compose every point I've made in this thread into a complex dissertation or reply to novel-length tirades - but laying insults isn't very courteous in the discussion/debate circles. |
As much as my comment speaks of my character, so does your very first post speak of yours. |
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by zokissima
As much as my comment speaks of my character, so does your very first post speak of yours. |
See! That's much better. :)
Work the point/counter-point! Build on the arguments!
Bravo! Much better than easy personal insults. |
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