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Kosovo - Independent Coutry...WTF?!?! (pg. 32)
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore_barbie
yea... but you said that this is not happening in any other country... maybe it isnt now... but the reason why russia spain and other countries are not supporting this craziness is because if they support it then why not let people within their own countries separate... so it might happen in other countries. once we let this happen once it can happen anywhere...
but i think you might have been referring to the violence... which is horrible! |
i am referring to the violence.
i did say before that i understand the Serbian people being upset. especially when their brothers are now being killed in Kosovo. but they are retaliating by attacking embassy workers, what will that solve?
i do no think this kind of violence and situation could happen in Canada. even with the Quebequois.
i think it's just so strange that people fight over borders and earth areas, it's just land. it's not like you were the first humans there. arbitrary borders. why do people fight over them?
there are diplomatic ways of going about things. |
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| jsibilin |
| I say,, let RAMBO handle this situation ! |
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| 8Wonders |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
i am referring to the violence.
i did say before that i understand the Serbian people being upset. especially when their brothers are now being killed in Kosovo. but they are retaliating by attacking embassy workers, what will that solve?
i do no think this kind of violence and situation could happen in Canada. even with the Quebequois.
i think it's just so strange that people fight over borders and earth areas, it's just land. it's not like you were the first humans there. arbitrary borders. why do people fight over them?
there are diplomatic ways of going about things. |
That'd be the logical way of looking at it, people down there use anything but logic to fuel their actions. |
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| Ania_xox |
The amount of people looking down their "western academic" noses at this situation is making me ing sick.
i.e. "Violence doesn't solve anything. The Balkans need to let go of their culture and move towards globalization. The Slavs of former Yugo are all savages"
Watch your father and brother get shot and try to control your desire to kill those responsible.
Watch your "ojczyzna" dissipate while your land is being annexed and then try to assimilate yourself and your family into another culture.
(RE: "ojczyzna"
http://www.answers.com/topic/fatherland - for those of you who speak another language, find the definition in yours on that site - IMO there is no word in english that accurately illustrates this concept... those of you who have lived in a site of cultural and linguistic dislocation probably feel this more acutely)
I already said a mouthful RE: the whole savages BS.
It wasn't just that comment in its particularity that pissed me off. It's that whole condescending judgmental mindframe that I find disgusting and that I think is a huge problem in the discussion of such a topic. It's like a minimal form of cultural hegemony. You can't approach a topic like this and try to impose your opinions as if all that is constant here is mutually constant over there. That's not how it works. Furthermore, doing so ARROGANTLY is UN.ING.ACCEPTABLE and disrespectful. You can't call yourself an advocate of global coherence and peace with such an attitude. |
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| Tb. |
| quote: | Originally posted by 8Wonders
That'd be the logical way of looking at it, people down there use anything but logic to fuel their actions. |
I wouldn't be so quick to jump to that conclusion. The burning of the embassy as shameful as it was, was done by a group of hooligans. Prior to that, 150-200k people gathered for a peaceful protest that went without incident followed by prayer at church. Unfortunately, the actions of that select few was what made the news, and undermined the peaceful actions of many. |
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| 8Wonders |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ania_xox
The amount of people looking down their "western academic" noses at this situation is making me ing sick.
i.e. "Violence doesn't solve anything. The Balkans need to let go of their culture and move towards globalization. The Slavs of former Yugo are all savages"
Watch your father and brother get shot and try to control your desire to kill those responsible.
Watch your "ojczyzna" dissipate while your land is being annexed and then try to assimilate yourself and your family into another culture.
(RE: "ojczyzna"
http://www.answers.com/topic/fatherland - for those of you who speak another language, find the definition in yours on that site - IMO there is no word in english that accurately illustrates this concept... those of you who have lived in a site of cultural and linguistic dislocation probably feel this more acutely)
I already said a mouthful RE: the whole savages BS.
It wasn't just that comment in its particularity that pissed me off. It's that whole condescending judgmental mindframe that I find disgusting and that I think is a huge problem in the discussion of such a topic. It's like a minimal form of cultural hegemony. You can't approach a topic like this and try to impose your opinions as if all that is constant here is mutually constant over there. That's not how it works. Furthermore, doing so ARROGANTLY is UN.ING.ACCEPTABLE and disrespectful. You can't call yourself an advocate of global coherence and peace with such an attitude. |
I'll say that being from there, that some of the actions that ALL sides participated on can only be described as Savage like, there's really no other way to describe it. Only animals would do some of the things that were done.
Western cultures should do anything but comment on violence in the Balkans, as if they didn't have a hand in such things in the creation of their respective countries. Let's not forget that their land was literally stolen from the natives, whom they've so conveniently butchered, and now even celebrate the day they rid the land of the 'savages'. Some bitter sweet irony there! |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ania_xox
The amount of people looking down their "western academic" noses at this situation is making me ing sick.
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No one is looking down at the situation. It's serious. No one wants violence happening anywhere. But you must admit the situation is in need of being solved forever.
And you must at least feel that people should get their act together and get this resolved. it's not looking down on the area, it's being in disbelief that it's still happening.
like some have said before, every single one of us comes from some sort of strife in our familial histories.
you don't see me hating on Germans or Russians after what happen during the WW2. |
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| malek |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
i do no think this kind of violence and situation could happen in Canada. even with the Quebequois.
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sure there's zealots on both sides, but not in enough numbers to cause any , even less willing to take arms and cause major balkan style. Violence is not a common trait to both Canadians and Québecois. Thank God. |
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| Xavier Moriarty |
diplomacy ???? LOL
yeah, back in 1999 you diplomacied (lol @ the word) our asses for 72 days straight. for 72 days straight you diplomatically dropped bombs with depleted uranium all over my country so that to this day kids are dying from cancer. and you wanna solve things there with diplomacy??
sorry if i sound jaded but i felt your ways on my own back and all i gotta say is God save me from your help.
all that you know is what you read (example : canadian embassy being attacked LOL) and that is ALL cause your media is biased, always has been, always will be (example : jamie shea CNN).
so, your input is more than welcome. hey, ill gladly discuss it with you to the best of my abilities. but please dont expect me to be ok with your ignorance or your holier than thou comments. as much as you think you know, you dont.
| quote: | | "NEVER AGAIN - NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCE" |
at what cost?????? quietly dissapearing in the night??? do you understand that whats happening right now is a rape of the nation. were you ever hungry so much that you passed out?? were you ever shoeless?? homeless?? and still were proud of what and who you are to the point that you'd die for your beliefs?? when you (and IF you, i wouldnt wish all that on my worst enemy) get to it and still think that way, ill shake your hand and ill kick myself in the nuts.
im not saying your points are not valid (even though you present them in this arrogant way, on purpose or not, thats not the point). but you cannot apply them back home cause its a totally different world. read about kosovo, read about 1389 and maybe you will be able to understand why are we reacting in the ways that we do.
vrk, you're my boy and nothing will ever change that. i have nothing but respect for you and you know that. im just saying none of us ex-yu should EVER get into an argument about politics cause nobody will ever win.
pitaju li dalmatinke za mene ?? LOL |
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| zokissima |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
Bull. People base their opinion on ALL available inputs: violence, history, people like you representing an area when you migrate, achievements - EVERYTHING. Filtering is easy from an academic perspective but not so much in practical application.
Why do you seem to keep going around in circles - dismissing anybody that doesn't give you a reach around? You come across as if only your opinion has weight so nobody else should even try to form one or comment one way or another.
Give me a break!
One of the few rational people in this thread has been Vrk. At least he seems to grasp the idea that unless people stand up, demand more, have enough and live "NEVER AGAIN - NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCE" nothing is going to improve.
Unfortunately - your "passion" (dismissal? denial? excuses?) does nothing to progress the situation and simply creates fodder and fuel for a situation, perception and region that needs anything but.
But then again - my opinion doesn't have any real weight, right? :rolleyes: |
I would have to agree with your first paragraph - individuals do form opinions based on all input. However, does that imply that all input is weighted the same, unbiased? As you yourself stated, in practicality it does not, and I was merely pointing out one rationale as to why there is strife in that area.
Never dismissed anyone in this thread, nor the comments they made. If the comments did not go deep enough then I merely replied in kind.
As for going around in circles, what can you possibly expect when the EXACT SAME argument and lack of understanding was being presented, regardless of what I said. As much as I latched on to the idea that anger is a rightful reaction to stolen land, to that same degree did the opposing posters in this thread latch on to the idea that objectively anger does not make sense. Those who chose to take the discussion in another direction, notably Vrk, had me follow in the same direction.
Vrk did in fact bring up good points, and I went so far as to state that, and fully agree with them. Prior to him making his comments, others came on here and made blatantly inflamatory comments taking this thread into a direction it had nothing to do with; this is something even Ivan pointed out.
But when you say people should stand up and cry "NEVER AGAIN - NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCE", whom exactly are you refering to? Are you so incapable of seeing that due to history, injustice, whatever general comment you can wrap your head around, they are all standing up and saying that right now? What are you expecting exactly? Your statement of introspection makes an assumption that all should give up anything and everything possible for peace? While in principle I can agree with that, in practical application, it will not work;
1) Serbia, just like everyone, wants peace. Does peace mean constantly giving up whatever is asked of it? Does it mean sitting down and feeling nothing but good-will if parts of their lawful and rightful ownership are being taken away? Further, having one side willingly give something away while the other side willingly takes it does not really represent any sort of mutual interest in peace, IMO.
2) Conversely, what if we did decide to give it all up. Based on all previous precedent, do you have any indication that the situation would not remain the same, that as time went on villages, towns, areas whatever, bordering the new country and Serbia would not suffer the exact same horrors that have been happening thus far? Nevermind that there is a precedent to this, and in that precedent the international stage consistently presents a bias to one side, and not neccessarily to mutual peace and acceptance. And according to the globalized international stage, that bias still holds true.
Do I want an ideal solution where all injustices are forgotten, where everyone admits to their own mistakes (and I have repeated constantly in this thread that ALL sides made many mistakes) and moves on? Of course I do. But that is just not a realistic and will never happen.
Does your opinion carry any real weight? To be honest, prior to the above post, I would have to say very little. You came in here, made an offhand, tasteless, remark, didn't bother explaining nor joining in for 30 pages of posts.
Ultimately, this thread was about the political situation unfolding there now. Your first legitimate post attacked the way I was forming my arguments, so does it carry any weight now? I dunno, that's not for me to answer. But based on everything you said as a whole so far, it is worth very little to me.
I'm just curious, you call us savages and whatnot. Care to comment on Xavier's comment on 72 days of straight bombing done by the coalition forces? Care to say anything about the churches, the hospitals, the civilians hit by those bombs? Is the globalized world somehow less barbaric because they rely on technology to do their killing? |
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ania_xox
The amount of people looking down their "western academic" noses at this situation is making me ing sick.
i.e. "Violence doesn't solve anything. The Balkans need to let go of their culture and move towards globalization. The Slavs of former Yugo are all savages" |
What's sick is your inability to properly quote or rephrase.
Better go to the doctor. |
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| miljan |
| Xavier, ides li sutra u TO? |
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