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Kosovo - Independent Coutry...WTF?!?! (pg. 55)
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| afterhrsgurl |
| lol good luck with that |
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| Yohan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty
your arrogance is starting to piss me off.
google Jamie Shea and kosovo.
that man's lies were responsible for deaths of THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of Serbian civilians in SERBIA not kosovo.
google nato bombing rts or train. get ing educated on what really happened, whats true and whats lie and then we can have normal conversation. what you doing right now is being inconsiderate know-it-all. |
chill the out dude.
I asked for your source, because I actually want to know.
What does James Shea have to do with validity of BBC as a source anyways? Other than the fact that BBC reported what Shea said?
If you were annoyed by the Pravda and Nodong Shinmun reference, do keep in mind that sense of humour is generally acceptable :)
| quote: | Originally posted by geroin
i have noticed that many times he does start to argue about things that he knows very little info about. |
I know I'm quite opinionated, and I'm not afraid to speak my mind.
If you feel that I'm talking out of my ass, feel free to try to debunk my opinions. I welcome it.
I try to keep an open mind, and if I'm wrong about something, I will admit it. I want to learn. That's the underlying drive of why I bother to get into these discussions.
| quote: | Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty
coming not from Serbs but from a NEUTRAL point of view.
he knows some things, but he thinks that everything coming from me, or any other Serbs is biased.
how do i explain some things to somebody who thinks he knows everything and that whatever i say is tainted because im Serb??
i dont even know why the am i trying anymore. |
You're quite right that I'm biased. Then again, everyone has a biased. Kinda hard to give credibility to Serbs when it comes to Kosovo, considering the situation. On flipside, I'm skeptical about what Kosovars are saying about Serbs too.
But like I said, feel free to present your arguments and evidences. I'm very interested about what the Serbs points of view are, if they are based on facts and logic, not just emotional outbursts.
PS: where is that article from? link? I may want to reference it in the future for academic purposes.
| quote: | Originally posted by capo tutti di
I've always wanted to read more into the whole conflict as alot went down in my lifetime (early 90's civil war??)
But really this probably goes back centuries and don't know where to start reading lol |
You're going to have to go back to at least Battle of kosovo in late 14th century when Serbs beat the Turks in a battle. Very long and complicated story. |
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| zokissima |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yohan
I don't know how solid my arguments are, but I thought I made a case looking at the situation from historical and objective and realist point of view.
You don't like them. Fine. Dismiss them? That's your choice.
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You made a weak case at best. I did not dismiss them. We even went so far to discuss the objective and realist view, dismissing historical and emotional significance. We concluded that it is a part of a sovereign nation that is breaking free. No point in re-discussing this over and over again.
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I question the emotional outbursts of Serbs. I understand what Kosovo means to Serbs, because I understand nationalism.
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As I said, you've done very little to show that you actually do understand it, outside of stating over and over: "I understand it, but".
Thus, according to you the only thing that matters is the 'here and now' and disregard:
-Nationalism
-Emotional outcry and anger
-Rational historical significance
Sorry, 'here and now' is not enough for you to fully understand.
| quote: |
bbc is not a valid source?
inflame the situation? these articles have no validity of the discussion at hand?
get off the emotional high dude. |
Valid is a relative term. I said that it was biased, and alluded that it spreads half-truths and misinformation. But yes, I'm clearly on an emotional high, and you clearly have a solid grasp on this situation. :rolleyes:
You keep asking for references. I posted earlier in the thread, and people bitched that it was irrelevant, because it showed the brutal treatment of Serbs. Hell, if I post a dozen links from Eastern European press, it will be dismissed as irrelevant and biased, just as I dismissed your 'sources'. Sorry man, but you're asking for centuries worth of history to be summed up for you in a several page article, or a wiki link. Want to learn? Go read a book. There are dozens, both biased and unbiased at every single Chapters and every single library I've been to in recent memory. |
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| capo tutti di |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yohan
You're going to have to go back to at least Battle of kosovo in late 14th century when Serbs beat the Turks in a battle. Very long and complicated story. |
CoR version???
I JOKE |
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| Yohan |
| quote: | Originally posted by zokissima
You made a weak case at best. I did not dismiss them. We even went so far to discuss the objective and realist view, dismissing historical and emotional significance. We concluded that it is a part of a sovereign nation that is breaking free. No point in re-discussing this over and over again. |
agreed
| quote: |
As I said, you've done very little to show that you actually do understand it, outside of stating over and over: "I understand it, but".
Thus, according to you the only thing that matters is the 'here and now' and disregard:
-Nationalism
-Emotional outcry and anger
-Rational historical significance
Sorry, 'here and now' is not enough for you to fully understand. |
I don't dismiss nationalism, emotional attachment to Kosov and historical significance.
But compared to realistic situation analysis, meaning, what can Serbia do to take back Kosovo, they become quite less significant. (This is essentially my key point to this entire discussion)
| quote: |
Valid is a relative term. I said that it was biased, and alluded that it spreads half-truths and misinformation. But yes, I'm clearly on an emotional high, and you clearly have a solid grasp on this situation. :rolleyes:
You keep asking for references. I posted earlier in the thread, and people bitched that it was irrelevant, because it showed the brutal treatment of Serbs. Hell, if I post a dozen links from Eastern European press, it will be dismissed as irrelevant and biased, just as I dismissed your 'sources'. Sorry man, but you're asking for centuries worth of history to be summed up for you in a several page article, or a wiki link. Want to learn? Go read a book. There are dozens, both biased and unbiased at every single Chapters and every single library I've been to in recent memory. |
I don't think nobody is asking for a ph.d thesis from you.
If you want to make a point with a valid source, fine. Do so. Show us a link which we can read at our leisure.
Of course any source should be scruntinised for bias. Hell, that's just basic academic honesty.
So, I will read stuff from pro Serb sources with a grain of salt, just like I will read stuff from NATO press about Kosovo campaign with a grain of salt. I apply my personal bias to ALL sources.
Expecting people to accept your sources as unbiased is just silly. |
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| Xavier Moriarty |
im not looking for your approval or pat on a shoulder, credibility wise.
you wanna have a normal conversation and yet post after post youre insulting everything that i lived trough, thinking that you know more than me about the thats going on down there.
you say you wanna learn and when somebody comes with a ing excellent point (angrypole) you make fun of him.
and you want me to believe that your posts are actually thirst for a knowledge and not just cheap shots, knowing that every single one of Serbs here will go bananas every time somebody s on our opinion because its "biased".
what do i have to show you to make you understand the errors of your thinking?
http://members.tripod.com/kosovo99/articles.htm
ill bet anything that you'll say "oh some contributors are Serbs so its not valid". so whats the point in me trying whatsoever when you dont wanna even hear out my side of the story.
im not trying to get any sympathy from anybody, i dont give a about that.
im simply trying to point our those double standards and dangers of what's about to come in the next 5-10 years because people dont care. i remember watching war in iraq on tv and not giving a till it came a-knocking.
try to understand my point of view and my anger, just try to. and please do not add any more gasoline on it because you cannot comprehend how touchy of a subject this is for me.
thats all i can do for you. i honestly apologize if i offended you in any way.
edit - Share what you know. Learn what you don't. |
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| Xavier Moriarty |
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! -- Isaiah 5:20
im done with this thread. |
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| Yohan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty
you wanna have a normal conversation and yet post after post youre insulting everything that i lived trough, thinking that you know more than me about the thats going on down there. |
I wasn't aware that anything I said was meant to be personal insult. I certainly did not mean it to be personal insult.
| quote: |
you say you wanna learn and when somebody comes with a ing excellent point (angrypole) you make fun of him. |
his post was a bit over the board style I've came across various conspiracy theorists.
| quote: |
and you want me to believe that your posts are actually thirst for a knowledge and not just cheap shots, knowing that every single one of Serbs here will go bananas every time somebody s on our opinion because its "biased". |
okay. think of yourself as not a Serb, but Egyptian (or any other race that has nothing to gain from Kosovo situation)
essentially, two groups of people are slinging mud at each other, and they both have good reasons to hate each other.
wouldn't you be skeptical of all their accusations against each other?
| quote: |
what do i have to show you to make you understand the errors of your thinking?
http://members.tripod.com/kosovo99/articles.htm
ill bet anything that you'll say "oh some contributors are Serbs so its not valid". so whats the point in me trying whatsoever when you dont wanna even hear out my side of the story. |
let's try not to assume.
I will read all the articles on that link given enough time.
| quote: |
try to understand my point of view and my anger, just try to. and please do not add any more gasoline on it because you cannot comprehend how touchy of a subject this is for me.
thats all i can do for you. i honestly apologize if i offended you in any way.
edit - Share what you know. Learn what you don't. |
I'm still having trouble trying to understand what did I say that personally offended you. because I don't give enough weigh to what the serbs are saying? :conf: |
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| angrypole |
| The conspiracy theory card is a very easy, and correspondingly common play among those who dont have any grasp of the abstract concepts at work in international relations. Illuminati, freemasonry, 9/11 staging are conspiracy theories. The fact that the US, having declared a multilateral war on drugs is taking steps to regulate the flow of heroin into western europe is not so much a conspiracy theory as a widely acknowledged pattern of international realpolitik. Many casual observers do not want to acknowledge it because they prefer to believe that the ruling apparatus they identify works to ACTUALLY defend the core values they, as governed citizens identify with. It is high time you step out of this blisful ignorance and at least realize that there are darker motivations at play in the ruling apparatus than upholding your comfortable democratic values. |
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| zokissima |
| quote: | Originally posted by angrypole
The conspiracy theory card is a very easy, and correspondingly common play among those who dont have any grasp of the abstract concepts at work in international relations. Illuminati, freemasonry, 9/11 staging are conspiracy theories. The fact that the US, having declared a multilateral war on drugs is taking steps to regulate the flow of heroin into western europe is not so much a conspiracy theory as a widely acknowledged pattern of international realpolitik. Many casual observers do not want to acknowledge it because they prefer to believe that the ruling apparatus they identify works to ACTUALLY defend the core values they, as governed citizens identify with. It is high time you step out of this blisful ignorance and at least realize that there are darker motivations at play in the ruling apparatus than upholding your comfortable democratic values. |
WTF u on about. The ruling aparatus is all seeing and all knowing, and all righteous :P
Joking aside, the more you allow yourself to be blinded by 'information' such as it is in its most common forms today, it becomes very easy to refute the above. I appreciate the post you made, it rings synonymous to some ideas I've seen getting much more exposure today, than say, 5 years ago. |
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| jonnystel |
| quote: | Originally posted by zokissima
lol, I really, really wanted to refrain from posting in this thread again. But you, and the guy above you just take the cake as far as stupid comments go.
1) From your own words, you don't know "much" about the situation and you "could give a about politics"...thus stick that head back between your legs until you get better educated and stop posting inflammatory comments that distinguish you as a shining beacon of ignorance.
2) Your own posts reek of an arrogance that you have just used as a blanket statement for Serbs. You seem to draw your conclusion based on your knowledge of a few hooligans that you have maybe known, and that have clearly discussed these issues at depth with you. Your comments can be said by basically any dumbass that has come accross any other dumbass and has clashed egos with said person. :rolleyes: |
as a matter of fact i dont know much about the situation...couldnt really care less cuz it doesnt affect me .. but u know what i know..a lot of serbs BLOW outta proportion... my family (grandparents) were beaten and abused and thrown in jail for nothing during the holocaust in poland.. and do u think i hate germans for it. NO happens get the over it people let them do whatever they want ..holy ! |
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