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Israel bombs Gaza...again. (pg. 20)
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| Anton |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Death toll reaches well beyond 400 and the world sits by and watches this massacre continue. Where is the in outrage?I guess having a few dead Arabs aint so bad after all is it?:rolleyes: |
The world sits by when thousands are murdered, even millions. Iraq, Darfur, Zimbabwe wherever it may be. |
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| Anas Attia |
I had to come back to the thread and see what has happened before going to bed.
I cant really post, as I'm in a rush to get some things finished, but I want to say that I'm glad your here Xavier ;)
Yohan and DigiNut, just a quick question that I hope you'll answer...
Where do you get your facts from? Which news outlets do you frequent? Ive asked some of you that same question earlier and no one has answered me. Try to answer it to the fullest, as its a very important question in showing you the fallacy in your reasoning. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Anas Attia
Where do you get your facts from? Which news outlets do you frequent? Ive asked some of you that same question earlier and no one has answered me. Try to answer it to the fullest, as its a very important question in showing you the fallacy in your reasoning. |
I don't think that "fallacy" means what you think it means, because you don't need to know the sources in order to point out a logical fallacy.
It seems as though virtually every response from you has the same thrust: "You only get your facts from the mainstream media whereas I do research on conspiracy websites, therefore you are ignorant and I am enlightened and you are wrong and I am right."
In fact I do not frequent any news outlets anymore. I don't have cable TV at home. Once in a while I read the newspaper and I tend to gloss over any really controversial articles because most of the media does piss-poor fact-checking and tends to be horribly biased. Mind you, they do that for the non-controversial topics too, but at least there's not really any harm done there, and somebody will correct me when it comes up in conversation.
What I have done is read several books on the subject, gone through several sites and essays on the subject both pro- and anti-Israel (checking references and weighing evidence accordingly, of course), spoken to a number of people from Israel and from Palestine, and been to the region myself some years ago (although obviously I didn't hang around on the Gaza strip).
I don't really feel like listing every single book and site I've ever gone to, and there's not really any single source I rely on. Suffice it to say that little if any comes from the news media.
I wonder where you get your evidence from. So far, the only sources you've shown us are Wikipedia and some 9/11 conspiracy nut. And the language you use, chock full of words like "oppressed" and "occupation" and "media control" is vaguely reminiscent of an Al-Jazeera broadcast. |
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| Yohan |
| quote: | Originally posted by Anas Attia
Yohan and DigiNut, just a quick question that I hope you'll answer...
Where do you get your facts from? Which news outlets do you frequent? Ive asked some of you that same question earlier and no one has answered me. Try to answer it to the fullest, as its a very important question in showing you the fallacy in your reasoning. |
i'm a history major with almost a minor in poli sci (still working on it)
only media i give any credence to is BBC, and globe and mail for domestic stuff |
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| DigiNut |
Bah, the beeb is no better than any of the American news, they just use more big words and speak with stuffy accents. For economics and general news they're alright, but when it comes to war or anything resembling it, they turn into total moonbats.
Network news is only good for one thing, which is to tell you "Hey, there seems to be some strange stuff going on here, and if you're really interested then you should probably find someone who knows what the hell they're talking about, otherwise don't form any opinion on the subject." |
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| Abercrombie |
| quote: | Originally posted by gummybear
and let's be honest here..there is a lot of Muslim hate in this world... |
I agree.... I'll use 'ill-informed' as this is the acceptable term now... It's stereotypes to the ill-informed that help cause hate. The majority of Muslims are just like you and I and everyone who loves life, values everyone and want society to progress, etc...
It sad that that small percentage of extremists and fanatics make such a bad image on everyone else. It's sad they they are the ones getting TV time, they sell commercials. The moderates/seculars wether Muslim, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, MUST STAND UP TO THEIR OWN EXTREMISTS. They are the problem. We can't be scared of them anymore, they are ruining it for us. They won't listen to anyone but their own.
| quote: | Originally posted by Anas Attia
Where do you get your facts from? Which news outlets do you frequent? Ive asked some of you that same question earlier and no one has answered me. Try to answer it to the fullest, as its a very important question in showing you the fallacy in your reasoning. |
So what media is the right one Anas? (I don't have cable or satellite TV if you want my answer). If you are ready to refute others' I am interested in your own, if that is anything different than the several clips and media you have already provided. |
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| Yohan |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Bah, the beeb is no better than any of the American news, they just use more big words and speak with stuffy accents. For economics and general news they're alright, but when it comes to war or anything resembling it, they turn into total moonbats.
Network news is only good for one thing, which is to tell you "Hey, there seems to be some strange stuff going on here, and if you're really interested then you should probably find someone who knows what the hell they're talking about, otherwise don't form any opinion on the subject." |
yeah. not that i agree with their point of view, but you gotta pay attention to current events somehow, and i've yet to find another media that's better. i read it only for generalities anyways
at least i find it better than cnn |
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| jad |
Hey
As a Palestinian, I must say I'm disgusted to see such shallow and insensitive responses to the unquestionable level of oppression my brothers and sisters have been experiencing in Gaza, the West Bank, and the Occupied Territories since 1948. As a student, I'm appalled by the faulty reasoning and incorrect information used by many TAs to back up unreasonable justifications of the IDF's attacks on a Gaza with no electricity, overwhelmed infrastructure, limited food aids, and exhausted medical services. It truly worries me to see how badly people misinterpret this situation, by primarily relying on biased news sources e.g. CNN. A lot of you seem to be quite uninformed about this, so I'm going to 'dumb' it down a little so that everyone can understand what I'm trying to say.
You simply cannot justify the IDF's killing and wounding of countless (literally) Palestinians, with undirected and weak Katyusha rockets landing in desolate areas in southern Israel, which left minimal damage and no deaths. For those who weren't able to comprehend that, simply take some time to compare the level of fear an Israeli child would feel when hearing relatively weak rockets landing miles away, to the fear a Palestinian child would feel when seeing the the family next-door's house being blown up to pieces along with all its inhabitants (that's not just the person who is merely suspected of having relations with Hamas, it could also be his or her whole family) by F16 jets or Apache helicopters. Maybe you guys should take some time to check out some casualty figures.
I do agree that Hamas shouldn't be launching anymore rockets, as the rockets MAY land on innocent inhabitants of the Occupied Territories, most of which didn't live there 50 years ago. However, I would understand why Palestinians might be a little bit frustrated after living under oppression and war, not having enough food, not being able to go to school, not having electricity for heating in the winter, and of course living with little to no human rights on a daily basis.
So PLEASE people... before anyone goes on to insult my people and my beautiful country, please take some time to EDUCATE yourselves about this problem... and I don't mean watching your little box, I mean get off your asses, go the library, and READ! |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Abercrombie
It sad that that small percentage of extremists and fanatics make such a bad image on everyone else. The moderates/seculars wether Muslim, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, MUST STAND UP TO THEIR OWN EXTREMISTS. They are the problem. We can't be scared of them anymore, they are ruining it for us. They won't listen to anyone but their own. |
It's easier said than done, since Muslims who speak out against their own extreme sects often end up getting killed or at least receive a lot of death threats. It's not so unlike Christianity in the middle ages; very little progress was made until the mainstream took responsibility and started reining in the reactionaries.
What really needs to stop are the awful platitudes that all take the general form of "I don't condone their actions, but I understand them and sympathize with their goals." It's an absolutely unproductive response. In non-weasel it would read: Well, *I* wouldn't have done it but it doesn't really bother me that *they* did it. Complete rubbish. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by jad
A lot of you seem to be quite uninformed about this, so I'm going to 'dumb' it down a little so that everyone can understand what I'm trying to say. |
So you describe everyone else as uninformed and proceed to provide absolutely no additional information. Well done.
"Rhetoric" is not the definition of "Information".
Are you actually from Palestine or just another self-identified Palestinian? |
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| InfiniteEclipse |
Recommended for all, at least as something that might potentially interest you, or you could discredit it. Regardless, its a friendly offering of an alternative choice.
www.geo-pol.com
www.alternet.org
www.truthout.org
www.world-newspapers.com (alternative perspectives)
www.theonion.com (had to throw it in)
| quote: | Originally posted by Yohan
yeah. not that i agree with their point of view, but you gotta pay attention to current events somehow, and i've yet to find another media that's better. i read it only for generalities anyways
at least i find it better than cnn |
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| Abercrombie |
| quote: | Originally posted by jad
Hey
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I agree with you too on many levels. The conditions many Palestinians experience is horrible and unacceptable. We see it on TV and read about it several times a week in all media. I also believe most of them want peace and want the rockets to stop shelling Israel too. Several Israelis have been killed by rockets too, it's not MAY as you mentioned... it has happened, so the fear of the possibility of it happening is very threatening, it's terrorizing, even if a crude shell doesn't hit anything, theyr have been a lot more close calls. However most of the Palestinian casualties are militants in the last few days (confirmed by media sources on both sides), and it is extremely sad and wrong many innocent bystanders were also casualties. It's sad that most Palestinians are repressed by both sides, internally and externally.
However because some of us may not agree 100% with others, it doesn't mean some of us are ill-educated. This goes two ways doesn't it? Don't assume some of us don't, some of us don't boast about our knowledge and experience. We're not six.
I all want to see a ceasefire again. A real one this time. We need to focus on the NOW as the first step. |
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