You're really afraid of the truth. I do realise that there are different branches of zionism, but the zionism practiced on the Palestinians is completely immoral. It strips them of their land, their rights, their dignity, and their lives. What would lead these Orthodox Jews, among many other normal Jews (including Dana Olmert) to protest Israel's actions? Why would Israelis protest against their own country's actions. You know there are many more Jews than the NK who disagree with the assault on Gaza, yet alone zionism. Why do you have to lie to yourself. When it comes to truth, you've truly proven yourself a coward.
Thank you for attacking my post the way you did. It actually makes me happy to have other people read your view, and realize the level of fear you have in the truth. I strongly believe that to the you're average unbiased mind, my post has much more credibility than yours, in terms of pure facts.
You're response is very typical and disregards the suffering Palestinians have experienced, at the cost of foreigners taking over their land, and exiling or killing the families which used to live there... which is what's happening in Gaza currently. As an Israeli you know that the siege of Gaza is resulting in more stolen land for the Israelis which they term as 'buffer' or 'security' zones. Now don't start bullting yourself. These zones just end up turning into settlements. Please justify to me why my relatives deserve to be killed or exiled from the land their ancestors have grown up in, to make room for greedy people like you?
Now how long has you're family lived in the occupied areas? How long have most Israelis lived in the Occupied areas?
If you're going to try to justify around 1000 Palestinian deaths (40% being women and children) with 'Hamas terrorist' actions which caused a handful of deaths, then don't even bother. I don't think it's right that Israeli civilians have to die, but please find some figures on the number of casualties from both sides and explain to me why roughly 100 Palestinian lives are worth 1 Israeli life in this conflict?
People like you fear to realize the underlying problem of Palestine. I do not have respect for blinded people like you. I do have advice for you, liberate yourself from the biased information you're spoonfed to sustain the evil existence of your apartheid state, as many respectable Israelis and Jews do. Those are the ones I have respect for. If you're willing to open up you're eyes and learn, then I'm willing to talk. But if you're going to try to prove yourself with twisted misinformation, then please don't waste my time.
I think I've said enough here. This is my last post.
Good day to you and may Peace prevail in Palestine
:)
Shade
I don't know why you keep sending me messages then posting the same crap here, but hey, I'll post my response.
"First, we'll begin by saying that you messaged me, not I messaged you. I have no interest in spreading propaganda (unlike yourself) nor making people 'feel bad' about a situation they don't understand. I don't try to manipulate people's feelings and have deliberately avoided posting any videos (or more than one news article) for the sake of not starting that garbage.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about, as what you're discussing has nothing to do with Zionism. Your claims also have virtually no backing. Why? This is why. You know nothing about Orthodox Judaism, what the 'general consensus' is about Israel from that community, nor the general view that irreligious Jews have; you're a lot of hot air.
Next, if you're going to claim casualty rates, then why don't I see you active on causes like Darfur, Congo, what happened between Georgia/Russia, Serbia/Bosnia, etc. etc.? They have much worse situations, and there's not nearly as much attention paid to them. That's if we're going to talk about casualties. I don't care what the numbers are, if you provoke attacks (Sderot has been receiving rocket attacks endlessly for 8 years), then when the more capable power retaliates, it's going to hurt more. Numbers are at this point strictly a media tool - and an unfortunate outcome of this situation. And don't get me wrong, I think it's awful that civilians die on either side.
Just the other day, however, they caught a man who, after seeing his friend die, changed out of his Hamas uniform into civilian clothing, then stepped into the house with 4 other men and 5 women in hopes of not getting caught. There are a lot of people who are made to seem as 'innocent civilians'.
Then let's look at those that dress up as IDF soldiers in hopes of exploding to death. And the children that are raised with guns and taught to explode themselves, and in some cases FORCED to go into Israel with these jackets. Where's the care for children? It's certainly not in Gaza's leadership.
Also note, I don't give a damn what Dana Olmert has to say about anything. I care what she says about as much as what Britney Spears has to say. As you seem incapable of doing it yourself, I actually care to look at both sides and formulate an opinion which isn't extreme like yours and doesn't attempt to spread utter crap to the world.
Get out of your box and quit spamming me and others with your nonsense."
T_ALI
The fact that more than 900 people are DEAD is not propaganda!!!
Yohan
so, anyone know of any palestinians against hamas protests?
Shade
quote:
Originally posted by T_ALI
The fact that more than 900 people are DEAD is not propaganda!!!
No, it's not, you're right. That numbers are being emphasized more than the situation itself leads people to completely miss the point in the matter. In addition, when "innocent women and children" often aren't so innocent, and those that are are used as shields by Hamas, then those numbers shouldn't necessarily be attributed to Israel's "murdering rampage". (This is not me justifying the deaths of innocents)
Shade
quote:
Originally posted by Yohan
so, anyone know of any palestinians against hamas protests?
Yup.
UmmiE
quote:
Originally posted by Shade
No, it's not, you're right. That numbers are being emphasized more than the situation itself leads people to completely miss the point in the matter. In addition, when "innocent women and children" often aren't so innocent, and those that are are used as shields by Hamas, then those numbers shouldn't necessarily be attributed to Israel's "murdering rampage". (This is not me justifying the deaths of innocents)
Dood just nuke them once and end their misery dont kill them every day one by one just do the Hiroshima and Nagasaki with them.....atleast they wont have to suffer and mourn the deaths of their loved ones and die a painful slow death.
After that you can take over there land completely and put your flags everywhere have that part of the world to your own self.
T_ALI
quote:
Originally posted by Yohan
so, anyone know of any palestinians against hamas protests?
most of my friends/family friends
DigiNut
quote:
Originally posted by T_ALI
The fact that more than 900 people are DEAD is not propaganda!!!
Neither is the fact that most of those people were terrorists.
Can't believe this thread is still alive. I guess I never posted a final response to the whole "USA is fighting Israel's war" thing, so here I go with that.
---
The USA sends money to Israel. We know this. I believe last year on record it was something like $1.5 billion in foreign military aid and another $2 billion in general foreign aid, which is close to 1/3 of the total foreign aid budget. The next in line is Egypt; they receive about half as much as Israel does.
This is no small amount of money. That's not what I'm arguing, though. Palestine supporters believe that the war is funded almost entirely by the USA. They believe that Israel is a proxy for the USA in the same way that Syria and Lebanon are proxies for Iran. This is the part that isn't justified. Let's look at this in perspective:
Israel has a $200 billion economy, with about $50 billion in annual government revenue. They are receiving $1.5 billion in FMA from the USA.
Is this a lot of money? Absolutely.
Does it help Israel? Sure.
Would Israel wither and die without it? Not likely.
By comparison, the Palestinian Territories, at last estimate, had a GDP of under $4 billion. I have no idea what the actual government revenue was. Let's say they had $1 billion available for the war. If the Saudis are sending them even $500 million - that's 1/3 of what the U.S. sends Israel - then it's a 50% boost to their war chest.
And it's not just the Saudis - they receive funding from almost all of the Arab/Muslim nations and a huge assload from the U.N. The UNRWA, which pays for food, shelter, medicine, education, etc. for Palestinians, had a 2008 budget of $541 million, over 81% of that coming from the USA and the EU. This is no small number either, and because it creates a situation of virtually unlimited welfare in Palestine, it helps to fuel the massive population growth that is their primary weapon in the war (kill one terrorist, three more take his place).
Putting it all together, it doesn't really look like the USA is using Israel as a proxy. It's more like a little bonus they pony up to Israel for keeping the radicals occupied in the middle east so they don't crash more planes into American buildings. Yeah, I know, it wasn't Palestinians who did that; keep the quote in context please. What I'm saying is that it's like a birthday gift; a nice gesture, useful even, but not depended upon for livelihood.
As for some of the "evidence" that has been posted showing that the Israelis have a lot of American-made weapons, I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove. The manufacturers are private companies, and very few countries have both the skill and manufacturing capacity to fuel a war. The USA is the largest exporter of arms worldwide; it's not just Israel buying. Russia comes in a distant second, and no other country exports even half as much as the top two.
So yes, Israel owns a lot of American weapons, and that's really very boring because so does every other country that the USA hasn't banned sales to. They make the best weapons in the world right now (in many cases using Israeli engineers!) so this is just common sense.
Can we put that issue to rest now?
T_ALI
It'll be laid to rest when people become more open-minded and realize that Israel is at fault as well for murdering hundreds of INNOCENT people.
