Originally posted by DigiNut
Ahhh, so close, so very close!
This is perhaps the greatest flaw in western society, coupled with the assumption that the ideal is an absolute rather than a cultural relative.
I would say this flaw is greater in western society however; this flaw is still present across the globe. You are right, in times of war in some religions and cultures its honorable to die for the cause but in almost every culture we feel the need to try and save those that are either beyond being saved or are not worth being saved.
Dr. Z
It's like the same topic repeats every 6 pages. If you're gonna post here then read the previous pages, because it's likely someone else has made the same post.
This is especially true if you're going to post pro Palestinian propaganda. That has already been dealt with, and are just wasting everyone's time.
Regarding the rally that was posted (in London UK I presume) to end the war on gaza; it is related to pretty much every rally everywhere in the western world. When kosovo declared independence Serbs flooded Toronto streets and lots of other cities in the world to protest. To say things neutrally: I know that a lot of the people there in the rally were kids brainwashed by their parents; "Kosovo is Serbia", etc etc, even though it may well be, the decision was premade for these kids. It has just become a biased nationalistic rally. A large number of these people have grown up in Canada. I meet tons of Croatian jersy wearing, Croatian procliamed ginos who actually only speak english, and their parents left Croatia when they were 2, and for some strange reason now, hate the Serbs? The same goes for the Palestine rallies.
I believe this is what diginut meant when he said, "another self identified palestinian".
Now I'm going to say something that will offend some of you, but, I feel that it needs to be said. I think people are afraid to say it. You can call me racist or whatever, but I'm going to be as general as possible.
If you are shallow enough to be controlled so greatly by religion, then you are easily brainwashed by any other means. This is why things like Hamas happen, and 1993-1995 Bosnia...
Spam
Well, all you Palestine backers were too emotional to answer my original questions. But go figure, I found the answer to my question in a NORTH AMERICAN NEWS SOURCE!
Toronto Star says:
"The ceasefire was holding more or less until Nov. 4, when Israel sent its troops into Gaza," said George Giacaman, director of the Program on Democracy and Human Rights at Birzeit University in the West Bank. "In my opinion, this was a deliberate attempt to provoke an attack by Hamas."
If so, it succeeded.
Six Palestinian fighters were killed when Israel sent troops into Gaza early last month to destroy a tunnel it said was to be used to kidnap Israeli soldiers. The following day, militants fired some 40 rockets into Israel, salvoes that claimed no lives but marked the beginning of the end for the tahdia, or lull, that had prevailed since June.
As I understood it, Hamas started firing rockets and broke the ceasefire. I was wrong. According to the Star, Israel broke the ceasefire.
So now that we know who started it, can we all agree that both sides need to stop killing each other?
MarkT
^^^
I read that too.
this is why I laugh to myself when people slam the media. they choose to ignore the points (like that one) that DON'T 'support' the alleged biased position.
the evil liberal media is suppose to be *so* pro-Israel, yet CLEARLY states in that article that not only did Israel allegedly break the ceasefire first, but is using the Hamas response as political opportunism to escalate the 'war' well beyond what is a rational response.
it's completely ing useless to debate this issue. people are bashing Yohan, but his original point *absolutely* stands, even if he/I/everyone don't fully comprehend the issues (and NO ONE here does): "both sides are wrong".
there is no "rational" debate going on here. one side is pointing to media sources that aren't credible because the media is NOT without bias or agenda.
what's laughable though is the retort of these little websites, other media outlets that aren't mainstream, etc. AS IF they don't have their own agenda!!!
some reply with "I lived there..."
so ing what? if you worked in the twin towers, does that automatically give you some remarkable ing insight into the politics behind 9/11? NO. what it DOES give you is a unique perspective on what it is like to live under particular circumstances. It does not mean that you necessarily have any greater knowledge of or insight into the multi-faceted causes behind, or factors contributing to, the current situation.
most people here are talking out of their asses and do not fully comprehend what is really going on...and I obviously include myself with the 'ignorant' label.
what IS clear is that both sides have *repeatedly* engaged in opportunistic behaviour that serve their own purposes rather than what is "good" and external factors and nations are playing a significant role in this mess.
pmoisse
Very well said, Mark. I agree completely.
There are agendas upon agendas in play, and both domestic and foreign actors. The point has long since past where it was useful to debate "who started it". Everyone wins when people start talking about who will end it. The answer to that is simple - everyone involved must work together to end it. However, it's come down to a game of chicken where neither side wants to blink first. The fact that everyone is blinded by religious pride and fanaticism obviously doesn't help matters.
The sad pawns in the game are the innocent people on both sides of this show.
What's so wrong with living in peace with eachother (this applies anywhere in the world)???? [/naiive wishful thinking]
ChemEnhanced
quote:
Originally posted by pmoisse
What's so wrong with living in peace with eachother (this applies anywhere in the world)???? [/naiive wishful thinking]
Peace on Earth is impossible. Although we may not like to think it....wars are necessary...they are a population control measure.
Just the fear of wars leads to new technologies that are not only used in war but in everyday life.
dj_souvlaki
nuke isreal.
InfiniteEclipse
Finding a few articles in a mainstream media source that happens to discuss an issue from a different perspective doesn't mean anything. The point is to question and determine an outlets objectivity, regardless of the side it supposedly supports. Unless your suggesting that every news piece released has to be from either the left or the right before you discover an imbalance.
Again you're taking what the Star said as fact. Nothing against the Star, just pointing out the "I read it in the paper so its true" mentality
1 Jan 09:
Anton
quote:
Originally posted by dj_souvlaki
nuke isreal.
Need to spell the countries name right before you can suggest nuking it.
gummybear
quote:
Originally posted by InfiniteEclipse
1 Jan 09:
you have no clue how sad this makes me...and i feel disgusted, even with myself for sitting here debating this issue...
no matter how you try to argue or portray it..this is not right....and unless you are actually experiencing this bull..you have no right to in provide commentary or judge....
yes, i'm pissed...mostly i feel helpless..
Anas Attia
Leaked video from Israel Media...
As I mentioned before, no one is usually allowed to take any video or photographs in Gaza, obviously due to the illegal nature of the Israeli army. Often, media personal are killed if found taping near gaza.
Anyways, you will see in the following video some leaked (non censored) media that came out of Israel.
Just remember this is one tiny example, but it gives you an idea how this is not the Israeli Army vs Hamas.. this is the Israeli Army slaughtering Palestinians, along with the destruction of the homes and the theaft of their respect.
U.S Media Has Done A Terrible Job Covering Hamas - Israel
There are many more video's by this guy.
Abercrombie
Anas, you can keep posting your clips on and on... people can easily post several from the other side. We know already what goes on. We know your intentions, we know what side you are biased on. Give it a rest.
