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Israel bombs Gaza...again. (pg. 9)
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| Adam420 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. Z
Anas, all the politics you've mentioned above are obvious and old. But that's not the problem anymore. It would've been nice to know that 50 years ago when israel was formed. The problem is that currently the palestinian muslims and the israelis don't see it that way. I've watched interviews with palestine region muslims, and most of them say, it's a religious war. A war between islam and jews. Some jews see it that way too. Not such a high percentage of jews though, because a lot of them in istrael are not from the middle east, but from europe and russia, who just don't give two s and are just saving their asses. (They were kicked out of there due to the Nazis and the Commies btw). So they really had nowhere else to go.
In any case, the conflict is now so convoluted, that it's pointless to look at history to place blame, but to try comprehend what is going on currently, and try to figure out what can be done. If you're trying to save lives, peacekeeping is the only thing you can do. If you've got oil investments in the middle east, then you pray israel doesn't perish. If you've picked a side and use the word of god to justify it then you're retarded, and if you don't care about the region, I guess you wouldn't be in this thread. |
Yes, basically this is what I say. Forget about what brought about the current circumstances and try to justify those event. Instead, just focus on the current issues.
i.e.
Do not argue that Jews have no place in the middle east. Instead, accept the fact that they're there, to stay, and try to figure out the best way to let them do that. Same goes for the other side, of course. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yohan
You cannot send peacekeepers where there is no peace. (UN already tried this back in 94 IIRC)
Now I can see a form of peacemaking (IE, separate the sides by armed force) but I don't think both Israelis and Hamas want this option. Not to mention no nation has stomach for any more casualties, plus overcommitted militarily |
The only people that are going to be able to solve this are the Israelis and the Hamas, neither side is ready for peace talks or for another party to come in and be the peacemakers.
At this time, all other parties need to sit back and let them battle it out. Unfortunately, outsiders are too worried about casualties and its the outsiders that want this to end. If they are not willing to listen then there is no reason for anyone else to get involved. If this has to last another 50 years then so be it. When both side have had enough thats when others need to step in and help in the peace negotiations. |
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| Adam420 |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
neither Israel.
States as we know them are a very recent conecept existing much later than the jewish province in the roman empire the short lived jewish kingdom or the palestinian province in the ottoman empire. |
I meant that there was never a concept of Palestine as an independent nation, until one such a concept arose in opposition to the state of Israel. The way I see it, the Jews in Palestine seized an opportunity. As there was no state in place, they figured they'd create one. The problem was, they forgot about all the arabs and the fact that they wouldn't be happy living in a Jewish state. Obviously by that point it was too late, hence they have to deal with cutrrent situations. |
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| Spam |
| quote: | Originally posted by infinity HiGH
How come every time Israel provokes the enemy into action they're victimized? And why is it that that "enemies" actions are condemned but when the "good" guys do it, it's ok? Fighting for freedom and democracy and all that beautiful feel good movie stuff is OK. But the moment people fight for another version of "freedom" then all of the sudden they're terrorists, monsters, animals, etc.
Such a double standard it's not even funny. |
What did Israel do to provoke Hamas this time? All I have is the news, and a few conspiracy videos posted by Anas, most of which are years old and some of which don't work. All *I* know is that for 3 days Israel said "Stop bombing us, or we'll retaliate" and sure enough, when Hamas didn't stop bombing Israel, they retaliated. Please, instead of stating "Israel provoked them" tell me, specifically, what they have done to provoke them.
It's not good enough for me when I hear a typical "Well, they took over Palestinian territory 60 years ago". You get nowhere arguing about the past, I want to know what's happening NOW that caused Hamas to start launching rockets at Israel. I don't have an opinion on this, like I said, all I have is what the news shows me, and the occasional video that can be likened to the 9/11 conspiracy videos. As it's been shown to me, a casual, generally uninterested observer, it looks like Hamas broke a ceasefire and had 3 full days to stop before Israel retaliated. And from that perspective I ask "What the were you expecting?"
Anas isn't being very useful, she won't answer a single question, she just declares that every person who asks a question is uneducated, directs them to a bunch of, and refuses to accept that Hamas is committing atrocities as well. Well *I* refuse to accept that Hamas OR Israel is innocent, a bomb is a bomb is a bomb, Palestinians are people, Israelis are people, and they are ALL suffering. Until she takes off HER blinders, Anas's opinions are meaningless to me.
I agree with your double-standard assertion. I'm just asking questions, I'm trying not to make any declarations because my knowledge of the situation is very limited. But I CAN share with you my perspective and understanding, and hope that you can, in a civil way, help me to better understand your viewpoints as well, even if in the end I don't agree. |
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| HouseGuru |
| quote: | Originally posted by Anas Attia
I know I feel like I am, but these are the people that are getting their voices heard... people like me simply are too afraid to voice our opinions because as you can see in this thread I am being attacked left right and center with the most idiotic yet somehow fox-news believable arguments.
I will continue to argue on here until every last one of you is convinced that the war in the middle east is truly, and utterly America's and Israel's war. I cry for Palestine man, along with all the other countries destroyed by these war mongers, I really do. |
Anas, you really have to take your head out of your ass. You cry like a little girl saying people are attacking you because they don't agree with your views. And then you try and get their sympathy saying I'm crying inside. Grow up, you sound like an immature little bastard that throws a hissy fit when he doesn't get his way. Yet your the first to attack anyone that has a valid point. You say they are uninformed or lack the facts to understand what is going on. I'm sorry to say but your as blind and ignorant as the poor palestinians that are suffering this aggression.
Before you even attempt to bad mouth me or judge me about whos side I'm on or even judge my knowledge about what going on listen then talk.
Your making yourself look like an ass if you are not capable of listening to other views then you need to STFU. How dare you insult them by making assumption as to there knowledge on the matter. You have no clue what others are feeling and you have no right to put your feeling before others.
This whole situations sickens me. People trying to convince others that this is about one thing or another complete lunacy. The fact is your both at fault for what is happening. You have one thing correct and that is that the fcukn Americans are pulling all the strings. The sad part is your letting them.
Wake up there is no winner at the end except the American interest. They need to destablize the mideast if they are going to continue to control it.
If you want to help the situation go back home and educate your people about what the real issue is. Then maybe there is a chance to end all this stupidity. Same goes to the Jews.
America will pay for this. Every dog has its day but right now you need to step back and put your emotions aside and work with each other to find common ground. You all need to unite if we are to bring those responsible to justice.
Stop fighting with each other and start working together. |
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| Anas Attia |
| quote: | Originally posted by Adam420
Palestine was never a country |
Wow are you serious? your comment is just so revolting, how am i to show you the true nature of things if you don't even think Palestine excised..lol Show me proof.. not from the popular media or your grandmother please.
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. Z
Anas, all the politics you've mentioned above are obvious and old. But that's not the problem anymore. It would've been nice to know that 50 years ago when israel was formed. The problem is that currently the palestinian muslims and the israelis don't see it that way. I've watched interviews with palestine region muslims, and most of them say, it's a religious war. A war between islam and jews. Some jews see it that way too. Not such a high percentage of jews though, because a lot of them in istrael are not from the middle east, but from europe and russia, who just don't give two s and are just saving their asses. (They were kicked out of there due to the Nazis and the Commies btw). So they really had nowhere else to go.
In any case, the conflict is now so convoluted, that it's pointless to look at history to place blame, but to try comprehend what is going on currently, and try to figure out what can be done. If you're trying to save lives, peacekeeping is the only thing you can do. If you've got oil investments in the middle east, then you pray israel doesn't perish. If you've picked a side and use the word of god to justify it then you're retarded, and if you don't care about the region, I guess you wouldn't be in this thread. |
obviously they Muslims and Jews are the ones fighting it out... but its not because of religion did the war start or is continuing, its due to governments... how many times do I have to repeat myself, please do some research and show me proof with your allegations.
And how can you say its pointless to look at history? thats the reason this mess is still around, because no one knows the history behind it. please read the proper history books then come back and argue with me. You seem to be holding on to this idea that "peacekeeping" is being done, who the hell is doing anything to keep the peace there? please tell me.
| quote: | Originally posted by Spam
Anas, a few of your videos "Are no longer available". Try to find ones that work. |
I went on a bunch of different computers and tested them, they all work. if you cant see anything let me know il find you another source.
| quote: | Originally posted by Adam420
Look buddy I lived in Israel for most of my life, I have friends in the army, most likely some of which are deployed as we speak. Hell, I used to regularely visit a restaurant in Haifa that was one day blown apart by a suicide bomber. If you want to have an intelligent discussion I can guarantee to provide one. There are many things I can tell you that you don't know, things, in fact, that will support your argument. On the other hand however, no matter how ard you try, there are also things you don't know that could be used against your argument.
The Israli government plays dirty. I admit it. A lot of them are crooks, I admit that too. I further admit that there is a certain movement in Israel which does not necessarily want to see an end to the way. Also I can tell you that Israeli children grow up without knowing about the horrors that the Plaestinians faced in 1948, and neither about the ones they are faced with right now, which of course interferes with any hope one might have that the Israelis themselves develop a sympathy for their Arab neigbors in any significant numbers.
But at the same time, you fail to admit that this is a 2-sided conflict. Your views are, to say the least, not far from being extreme. You speak of Israel as if it attacks unprovoked, as if the blood of its innocents has never been shed, as if it does not itself need to struggle to survive.
I'd gladly discuss this further, and I hope by my post that you can see that I am perfectly capable of representing both sides. I admit that most people, even the majority that argues in Israel's favor, is quite ill-informed. Indeed it is very easy to critisize actions taking place thousands of miles away from one's own bedroom, which is unfortunate if I may say. You on the other hand, are not capable of arguing for both sides, as demonstrated by your posts, and until that changes, I do not believe most will take you seriously. |
Ok, i have dealt with Israeli friends before, its been hard but i have proven to them that their point of view is extremely biased, much more than even an American's. You don't seem to be completely taken by the crazy ideas being preached by the media, but still i do not agree it is a two sided conflict.. please watch the movies and do your OWN!!!! research please. I cannot stress this enough.
If you think for one second I think strapping a bomb to ones chest and killing a bunch of innocents is right, then my friend you have read all my posts with a prejudice that I am originally wrong, without giving me a chance. All I am trying to say here is you have to understand the Palestinians perspective. BTW when you say my views are one sided, you fail to see that i'm the only one with a real view for the palatinates... you just don't like to hear what it is I am saying. It goes against years and years of belief on your end.
Btw the fact that you have lived in Israel, and know Israelis in the army is further proof of your bias, not proof that you are more knowledgeable in the subject, do you agree? Those in the armies doing the bidding are often the most brainwashed of the nation, after all they are killing the women and children themselves.
Also, please I am all for knowledge and if you want to prove some of your points here, il be glad to hear it, and i will be glad to believe it, only if there is proof. Only if its not an illusion of knowledge but real knowledge.
Again, everyone, I'm not sure how many more times I need to say this, please educate yourselves first, then pass judgments. I have spent four years insuring my points before opening my mouth. I try not to be insulted by you guys and your apparent knowledge and truth and continue to argue in a proper debate manner. Please do the same. |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by T_ALI
Do u support/condemn the Israeli army when it kills and terrorizes innocent people? |
she already said she doesn't. |
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| Abercrombie |
| quote: | Originally posted by Anas Attia
Fellow TA's... EDM lovers, and generally good people.
To those who are writing to support Israel, I’d like to make it clear that I cry inside when I see your posts... do you cry inside when you see my posts supporting Palestine? I bet you that you do not, because you frame of mind cannot comprehend the Palestinian point of view. You are at home, comfortable and unaware of the real issues, you are brainwashed to believe that Israel is nothing but a god loving nation who is PROTECTING itself against the evil Palestinians and their backward ways. You will find that that ideology couldn't be further from the truth.
yada yada yada
Do not be a sheep. |
Anas, you're a good DJ and many of us like myself respect you for that.
You appear to be blinding yourself to other people's point of views, as you portray that you are the only one not brainwashed, and that you have the in-depth knowledge of the issue, and we're just ignorant.
Do I have to join you in boasting my resumé of my knowledge of the matter? There are others here too with more knowledge on the matter than you think. You're not the only one with university degrees here.
It's a touching matter, and in some ways some feel your crying inside as well. You can post all your videos expressing your point of view as much as you want. TA is a drop in the bucket, and if you want a change at the level you say you are, a bigger stage than TA would better suit your soapbox.
Your view unfortunately isn't the only view, and it may not be wrong at all, nor right. Be a little bit more open, and try not to assume too much about others or think that others are off their rockers, and perhaps we'd be able to engage in more comfortable dialogue.
We all want peace here. I'm sad as much as you that it has come to this. Let's hope it ends swiftly, so both both sides can relax and recognize each other and accept each others presence and work to reach two peaceful nations. |
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| arghh |
| quote: | Originally posted by misterpink
Nothing like bombing the out of the oppressed while the world is distracted with the Christmas season. Congrats to Israel for sinking to new lows, even if they had to dig to do it. ing scumbag of a country. |
are you really this ignorant? really?!?! |
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| Adam420 |
You would think that my affiliations to Israel would skew my views, and you know what? In most cases it would. Unlike most, however, I have educated myself quite well about the plight of the Palestinians. I want peace for the Palestinians just as much as I want it for the Jewish people. You may not blieve that but it's the truth.
I do not disagree with critisizm towards Israel. You will not find me doing so. You will, however, find me arguing against those who who critisize Israel without admitting their own mistakes, or at the very least, leaving themselves open to critisizm.
And trust me, I know first hand about the conditions that the Arabs in Israel live in. Growing up in the country I always wondered why yhey had subjected themselves to those conditions. I think most Israelis think that way growing up. but when I got older and started evaluating the situation from a 360 degree angle, I realized it was'nt out of choice that they were living in slums. I understood the real truth and it disgusts me.
But again, let me go back to an earlier point that I made. Suppose a couple of suicide bombers blow themselves up in two Israeli cafes. Let's say one in Tel Aviv the other in Jerusalem. I think that most would agree that a retaliation is in order. Do you actually expect Israel to send suicide bombers into the territories? No, they will send their tanks/fighter jets, as they are capable of doing. And while civilians may get hurt, atl east it wasn't intentional as with the attacks that had provoked them.
This is very much a two-sided conflict. I don't know under what kind of illusion you are that this is not. Both sides are wrong, plain and simple. Both are aggressors and both are victims. Israel just happens to be the stronger one. It doesn't make sense to fault a nation because it has superior firepower.
Anyway this seems more and more pointless. No I will not post any retarded conspiracy videos because Israel does'nt make any. Only the extremeist Arabs have the need to make those, because the truth is not enough to back their cause. Do you notice that I'm not attacking the Arab cause? I believe in it, but I also believe in Israel's right to defend itself. Strange that I'm an Israeli Jew that holds such views but I think it enables me to see deeper into the situation than you ever would.
Until you prove that you are going on anything more than media, your arguments are pointless. Att he same time, I am not making any arguments, I'm just trying to make sure no stupid and uninformed ones get made. |
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| Anas Attia |
Ive said what I've said.
Those who are still arguing with me can stay in blissful ignorance, while Israeli tanks are bombing entire families in their homes.
I think i'm gonna stop posting on TA, because I emotionally cannot keep this up, I don't want to be a quitter, but I have bigger fish to fry than the few of you who cannot change their views... you can keep them... One day I hope you will see the light of factual evidence, but I cant see that day being anytime soon.
And Abercrombie, many people bring up that i'm a DJ, this and that, but that should have nothing to do with being compassionate to people's lives and lively hoods.
And when you say WE are ignorant, you make it seem that I said YOU as in everyone, I meant those with the view against the Palestinians are and i never said Ignorant.
"TA being a drop in the bucket", is a drop in the bucket I could help show the light, whats wrong with that? one drop at a time.
and my "view" is not the only view, obviously, but its the view that is harshly overlooked by almost everyone in north America. Am i right?
And you last note about us all wanting peace. do you think WANTING it hard enough will make it so? I hope more people could act like I do and show off what they know and share with the world to insure peace will happen.
Back to the DJ think, I would drop my DJ career in a heartbeat if I can make peace in the middle east for even one minute. |
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| T_ALI |
This issue is never going to end, or maybe it might end one day in some horrible destructive manner.
Other issues like this r
The protestants and the Catholics in Northern Ireland etc
India and Pakistan over Kashmir
Its never going to end...
Lets just take break, and relax. |
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